KK overpair (25$ NL on Party).

[Andrew Fletcher]

First of all, setting an image is pretty much useless at the P 25NL tables. So I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

I agree that a small bet on the flop might acomplish the same goal, but in my experiance that min-raise means a flush or straight draw. So I'd call or maybe even re-raise. Most of the time he is way ahead here.

I had a very similar situation at PokerStars. My JJ overpair lost to a set of tens on my first hand. I think I would call this bet and fold to aggression (might go check/check on the turn) and call small bet, fold to a big bet on the river.

[kurto]

I think, especially at $25 tables, that most people call with a flushdraw, not reraise.

regarding the setting an image... I was kind of kidding... setting an image that you'll lose your whole stack with just a pair is terrible.

"Most of the time he is way ahead here." I disagree. Particularly at $25 tables where people aren't as 'tricky'. Most people are very transparent. They usually call with their draws and minraise with strength.

I think the key is that the villain can very easily put the hero on a hand. I find at most $25 tables, people (min)raise you when they have real strength.

If it was a higher table, I could see someone raising with position to try to buy a free turn card. But not at the $25s.

[kurto]

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If you aren't getting your stack in here, then you are folding to the raise as played?

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I have no problem folding here. If I was at the table longer and had reads that led me to believe the minraiser would do so with draws or would do this with a weak hand, then I might get it all in.

But I feel very comfortable saying that MOST players, particularly at $25 tables, are very straightforward; they call with draws/weak hands - minraise or better if they think they're ahead.

Most players, if they think you have overcards and are doing a continuation bet with something weak like a pair of 8s.... they call. They don't minraise.

I think people are always too ready to not give enough credit to our opponents. People are basically advocating here that anytime you have an overpair... get your whole stack in. You're going to give up a lot of money that way.

[kurto]

There has been much written (here and in books/magazines) about pot control.

If he gets it all in preflop with Aces or Kings... fine. Good for him.

Building a pot with just an overpair out of position and losing your whole stack is bad.

I say again... with strong reads, I have put my whole stack with just an overpair. Without it... when you show strength preflop (particularly out of position) and follow it with strength on the flop and still get raised... unless you know your opponent is a retard, they can beat a pair.

I've seen numerous threads on the high stakes boards where they check the flop with an overpair... why? Pot control.

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Not all the time.

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I agree. But the times when you do it are against an opponent who you have a good read on and you're fairly confident you're ahead. I don't see this hand fitting that criteria.

[emil3000]

I really don't think this is the place for pot control. I don't know if you're implying that the high stakes posters might check behind here, but if you are, you are very wrong.

I might agree with you about the raise size preflop, depends on how much that gets called, but hero is in position here, there's not the same need to bomb away that it would be if hero were in the blinds. You may have been mislead by the fact that he posted in the CO.

I think you're ahead here often and there is a lot of money in the pot. Getting it all in here is profitable and it's not close IMO.

[kurto]

"I think you're ahead here often and there is a lot of money in the pot."

So, you think when you show strength preflop and on the flop, and you get minraised (particularly at a $25 table), that you're usually ahead?

We must be playing at different tables.

Basically.... everytime you have an overpair... you're advocating putting your whole stack in regardless of the other people's actions.

I don't see how that is smart. You'll win a lot of small pots when you're ahead and lose your whole stack anytime someone can beat a pair.

[davekngs]

I think this is a 50/50 call and the responses from everyone seem to suggest the same. why doesnt he have a lower Over pair to the board? there is also the possibility that he has taken what he thinks is your continuation bet personally and has tried to come over the top with his random PP or A-face. that said it is almost impossible to know with no reads. I think your flop bet is too big tho, $6 is better IMO. it charges draws and doesnt encourage people to think you are bluffing, leaving you with a tough call