K8s UTG

[Spladle Master]

I can't put him on a hand. Under those circumstances, my default play is to call and re-evaluate on the river.

[KaneKungFu123]

i dont see him firing two barrels, chk-raise turn, bluff river.

so id underbet here, call the raise, wait for the river.

i think full pot builds the pot too big if you dont have a clear idea what you want to do.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't put him on a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


Think: Flush.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't put him on a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


Think: Flush.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did. I think many things. Perhaps it would have been better if I had said, "I do not know what he has." Obviously a flush has to be considered, but so do some of the hands that rocaix mentioned.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the negatives of giving a small spade a free card really outweigh the times we get check-raised off the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why must we fold to the check-raise if we think there's a good chance that we have the best hand?

[kagame]

quick calls always make me think draw

[coltrane]

fsu,

discussing this hand is at the same time both great and useless.....decisions like this in hands like these are quintessential to big-bet....but, once general mechanics of the game are understood, there is no real "right" answer here and everything comes down to the player - your read of him, his tendencies, the gear he's in, what gear he thinks you're in, etc (which is why I just cannot play this game well on the internet [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) and then applying the correct strategy accordingly.....

some random thoughts about the general stuff though......

it's a raised pot and effective stacks are just over 100bb to start the hand - stacks are WAY too shallow here to think about any kind of "calling a turn checkraise hoping to improve" (if you're behind, you're likely drawing to 4 outs) REGARDLESS of how little you bet on the turn.....the only reason I'd ever think about underbetting this turn is if I'm playing against the type of guy will checkraise at any hint of weakness - and then of course I'd be underbetting merely to set a trap......

some key things to think about are: is this villain the type of player to checkraise the turn big without a cinch made hand? (either pure bluff or semi-bluff) - some guys just aren't and if the answer to that is indeed no, there just aren't too many "real" hands you are ahead of on the turn......if the answer is yes or sometimes, you need to get a read on how the current gear you're in might affect that.....could the probability of him having a hand like TsTx or 8x7s or AsKx etc. be high enough to make calling/pushing worth it? (both in terms of how he played his hand preflop and on the flop as well as the turn).....

[whitelime]

When I am running over a table, I find that one of two things usually happen. It's interesting because it's almost a black or white mechanic. There are times when players find it necessary to play back at me every chance they get. If that was the case, I would probably be looking to get my money in the center with your hand. Other times, however, the rest of the table almost goes into a shell. This is when running over a table becomes insanely profitable. They refuse to play back at you and will wait for the pure nuts before making a move. It seems like your case is more of the latter. At that point, you have to use your judgment and think about the hands you beat that your opponent will raise for "value" on the turn. Given your description of the table, I think your opponent has you beat often enough that you can fold this hand.

[fsuplayer]

good post.

I think this hand comes down to the villians tendencies on the turn. if he is CRing a made hand, then i am behind more than I am ahead. add in semi bluffs to that, as well as air though and it becomes damn close i think.

the problem with the turn is that it really looks like a play that some regs at the 10-20 pull from time to time. which is call a flop continuation bet, and then CR a turn high card, like an ace, so that ill fold my missed high cards, as well as mid-highish PP's, and maybe even some aces. the kink in that though is that card also brought the flush.

i felt like he could pull this turn CR with a pair, a pair +spade, air, as well as made hands. which i do have outs against, which helps a tiny bit.

my image at the time, as well as the fact that these guys hadnt seen me before that day and might just view me as a crazy LAG turned this into a no-fold for me.

I didnt love it, but i felt he is semi bluffing a decent amount and CRing a made hand i beat occasionally like KQ or AK, either with or without a spade. so i didnt want to call and see a bunch of ugly cards on the river. so i pushed.

[fsuplayer]

forgot to add the results. opponent took his entire time allotment and folded for the last 1k.