Stem Cells

[David Sklansky]

I don't understand why people seem to be afraid to simultaneously acknowledge that using the embryos is homicide even as they are at the same time in favor of the research. This isn't like abortion where the upside to it is not enough in most people's minds to condone killing, if that's what it is. Stem cell research could benefit humanity at least as much as winnig the war in Iraq or Vietnam. And in those cases people were willing to accept the killings of thousands of innocent cognizent humans for the supposedly greater good.

Stem cell research has a greater good, involves killing not yet cognizent humans, and in much smaller numbers. Why can't people just say it's killing, but its worth it?

[Jbrochu]

It’s a good question. For one, a decent argument can be made regarding when an embryo becomes human. Many people in favor of abortion do not believe abortion is homicide. Clearly, those people would not believe stem cell research constitutes homicide.

Secondly, human beings have an amazing ability for contradictory thought. For example, many Americans (I believe the majority) do not support euthanasia, yet they do support “pulling the plug.” Rather than end a life mercifully when all hope is lost, we often prefer to let one suffer for hours or days on end until dehydration or hunger takes its toll. Amazingly enough, we do not inflict this treatment on our pets. Almost all Americans prefer putting a beloved pet to sleep rather than have it suffer.

[David Sklansky]

"For one, a decent argument can be made regarding when an embryo becomes human."

My post was directed to those who believe an embryo is human.

[David Sklansky]

"human beings have an amazing ability for contradictory thought."

They better lose that ability when they join this website.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
My post was directed to those who believe an embryo is human.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, see my second point regarding our amazing capacity for contradictory thought.

[BigSoonerFan]

[ QUOTE ]
In that case, see my second point regarding our amazing capacity for contradictory thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand and agree with your point, but not particularly a good example. DS's point was in dealing with human lives. We have shown as a country that we have no regard for animal lives (60 million cats and dogs are euthanized yearly for non-medical reasons), so we can't draw a good comparison between our behavior with human lives and animal lives.

[BigSoonerFan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why people seem to be afraid to simultaneously acknowledge that using the embryos is homicide even as they are at the same time in favor of the research. This isn't like abortion where the upside to it is not enough in most people's minds to condone killing, if that's what it is. Stem cell research could benefit humanity at least as much as winnig the war in Iraq or Vietnam. And in those cases people were willing to accept the killings of thousands of innocent cognizent humans for the supposedly greater good.

Stem cell research has a greater good, involves killing not yet cognizent humans, and in much smaller numbers. Why can't people just say it's killing, but its worth it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure comparing war to stem cell "killing" is valid. WAR is a calculated risk that results in an unknown amount of deaths. The goal is to have zero deaths. Stem cell research obviously requires death as part of the process.

Who is your first line intended for anyway? The left or right?

[andyfox]

"Stem cell research could benefit humanity at least as much as winning the war in Iraq or Vietnam. And in those cases people were willing to accept the killings of thousands of innocent cognizant humans for the supposedly greater good."

First, I don't think your last sentence is accurate. Governments routinely lie and dissemble about war, especially about the innocence of its victims. Maybe some of our leaders are willing to accept the kilings of thousands of innocents, but I don't think "people" in general are.

Second, people routinely value some human lives as more important than others. As you have pointed out about African children, out of sight, out of mind. We were often reminded during Vietnam, for example, that the "Oriental" didn't value human life as we supposedly did; they were less human/humane than we westerners. And our government has certainly not tried to make the information about how many civilians have been killed in Iraq readily available so that it will be discussed on the daily talk shows.

To acknowledge that killing embryos is homicide would be to publicize what those in favor of the research would not want publicized. Take a look at the speech Harry Truman gave after the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. He claimed it was "an important Japanese army base." He said, "The Japanese began the war from the air at Pearl Harbor." His original draft spoke of the target being "destroyed" but that was stricken, fearing it would look like we were expressing too much satisfaction. In fact, the original draft didn't even contain the name of the city, but it was added when it was realized people would ask about it.

You want the truth? People can't handle the truth.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]

"For one, a decent argument can be made regarding when an embryo becomes human."

My post was directed to those who believe an embryo is human.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not studied this in depth or anything, but my guess is that most people who believe embryos are human do not support stem cell research. Those that do believe embryos are human yet continue to support stem cell research often only support stem cell research using leftover embryos since they believe that these embryos were created for "the greater good" and that they're going to die anyway. They do not support creating embryos for the sole purpose of stem cell research.

An example of somebody holding this belief is Mitt Romney. However, if I had to take a guess, I would guess that Mitt would not call this homicide. We need somebody like Mitt to come answer your question.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
"For one, a decent argument can be made regarding when an embryo becomes human."

My post was directed to those who believe an embryo is human.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't believe an embryo is human but if I did I would be against stem cell reseach for the same reason I would be against torturing babies even if it was for some common good.

It may help you to understand if you understand that I'm not into utilitarianism.

chez