Bet river, fold to checkraise?

TheWillMo · #1 06-27-2005, 11:14 PM

Out of position you need to loosen up your bet-folding standards because you don't have any better options, but how often do you bet the river after being checked to planning on folding to raise?

Both villains are way too loose. They've open limped in the cutoff and button a few times. No other reads.

I bet both river intending on folding if raised.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets...

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (5 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets...

How strong of a read do you need to check the river behind, or call a checkraise?

Xhiggy · #2 06-27-2005, 11:33 PM

given the description of the opponents, I think bet/folding the river is fine.

dave44 · #3 06-28-2005, 11:33 AM

Both of these hands look fine, and if you got popped on the river in each of them I think folding is correct.

ejess · #4 06-28-2005, 12:21 PM

I only have 35k hands at 5/10 and am only winning 1 BB/100 so I know I have leaks and plenty of them. In other words, my advice might not be 100% solid but I try.

I like hand 1 because you can expect calls from hands such as 98, JT or T9 (or even weaker tens). I bet this river but I'm not 100% sure I fold to a raise against an unknown "loose" player, noone else calls a raise here?

I don't think I value-bet the river enough in general but I think I would check behind in hand 2, I don't see many hands that you beat that will call the river bet. If I did bet I would indeed fold to a raise though.

JrJordan · #5 06-28-2005, 12:52 PM

It's a must value-bet for both hands. Hand 1 getting 11.5:1 I'd probably call just because I really can't put him on a hand here. You mentioned loose PF but never said anything about passiveness. If he's passive then you could fold Hand 1, but barring a read I'd call it.

Hand 2: Again, what the heck does he have? 98? This one is a little bit easier to fold. You're only getting 8:1 and your kicker sucks.

Call hand 1, fold hand 2.

Mig · #6 06-28-2005, 01:08 PM

P/T stats means nothing. I had 3k hands on a 35/5/0.8 passive player yesterday. This player raised on the button I had K9s on the BB. SB came. The flop came KJT. 3 handed. I bet both call. Turn is a T. I bet the button raises, SB calls. I thought for quite some time and folded. Both had QJo .... If they are capable of that trick on the turn they can do the same on the river too... I would call 99% sure...

dave44 · #7 06-28-2005, 04:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
P/T stats means nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

A pokertracker stat that says the player is passive certainly makes him less likely to be bluffing. It doesn't mean fold everytime a passive player raises you, but it does mean fold more hands than you would against a more aggressive player.