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  #1  
Old 12-03-2005, 11:32 PM
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Default Backing down on the turn?

How should I play this?

Party Poker $50 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">UTG ($86.02)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($101.26)</font>
Button ($52.53)
SB ($77.55)
BB ($40.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($12.75) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11</font>, UTG calls $11.

Turn: ($34.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($34.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $10</font>, Hero ???

Comments on all streets welcome, especially turn and river. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2005, 11:34 PM
Hattifnatt Hattifnatt is offline
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

Preflop, flop and turn looks good imo.

River is read depending but I probably make it $25-$30
on the river and fold if he pushes.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:03 AM
EMcWilliams EMcWilliams is offline
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

I always like checking behind on the turn. Keeps the pot small and manageable, and will often induce a river bluff. I repop the river and fold to an unlikely push.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:21 AM
ajmargarine ajmargarine is offline
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

[ QUOTE ]
I always like checking behind on the turn. Keeps the pot small and manageable, and will often induce a river bluff. I repop the river and fold to an unlikely push.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense whatsoever. You check behind for pot control on the turn. You give up the betting impetus there and open the door for all kinds of silliness from villian, because now his hand range for you expands. And now you want to repop him on the river, in a hand you checked for pot mgt on the turn. That is one mixed-up play.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:24 AM
EMcWilliams EMcWilliams is offline
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

That might explain why im terrible. I do that so if the flush card falls Im not in trouble, and since it didnt, I take this to be a bluff or a hand worse than mine.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2005, 12:30 AM
ajmargarine ajmargarine is offline
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

The actions you advocate aren't bad. The reasoning you are using to support taking those actions are off and inconsistent.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2005, 02:35 AM
directscooter directscooter is offline
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

I like it, but the river depends on the read, if he is bad you induced your bluff so raise and fold to a push. If he is decent, I just call here.
My rule is anytime I check behind on the turn, I am calling most normal bets on the river, because you are begging them to bluff by showing weakness.
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2005, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

You are holding the A of hearts, so he can't know he's got the nut flush with KQ of hearts. KQ heartts warrants a $2 pf raise. It also fits into calling your raise to $6. You have the option of bluffing the nut flush because of the Ah. JJ, or 99 are also likely. AJ is less likely because of the raise pf.
As soon as you stopped betting on the turn, he picked up the ball with a biggish bet on the river. I think he's got your AA beat here but pot odds of 4:;1 warrant a call. He needs trips , a straight, or a flush to beat you. You only have to be right one time in 5 to break even on this call.
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2005, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

I would bet the turn for information. With the check you have no idea what he has. Which gives him the opportunity to bluff you out on the river.
I would also have bet more post flop. Something like $13 - $16 or maybe even more. With two flush cards I always end it early. If he calls the bet then you have limited his range of hands down quite a bit.
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2005, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: Backing down on the turn?

My approach for hands like this, overpair/TPTK on completed flush board is to pot flop, 2/3ish turn here (fold to a repop), then check behind on the river. In my experience, people love slowplaying flushes like this and waiting until the river to checked cuts down on a river repop while still extracting value from hands you beat. If you get lead into on this approach... you are probably beat since you just displayed respectable strength on two streets. Depending on the bet size it might be smarter to simply fold, but it becomes mostly read dependent in that case.

I've never been a fan of checking the turn, completed draw or not, because it opens up the door to too much trying to take a shot at you at these limits and put you in an uncomfortable spot.
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