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  #21  
Old 12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
jhall23 jhall23 is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

I like 20 on the flop for 2 reasons. It might make him fold a little bit more. If you decide to push the turn it is closer to a pot size bet and doesn't look as weird.

On the turn I can't really say, but I have found against lots of short stacks they are more willing to call off a pot-sized all in on just a flush draw. 50bb isn't super duper short so this may not be the case for this guy, but I definetly see fishier stuff when they are calling off their case chips with a short stack.
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  #22  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:12 PM
yvesaint yvesaint is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

he has to fold 68% of the time for this to break even

given that you cant even beat 90% of flush draws w/9-high, i dont see how this is profitable at all

there are now 2 flush draws possible, hes short stacked, and he has to fold 68% of the time or more
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  #23  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:23 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

[ QUOTE ]
he has to fold 68% of the time for this to break even

given that you cant even beat 90% of flush draws w/9-high, i dont see how this is profitable at all

there are now 2 flush draws possible, hes short stacked, and he has to fold 68% of the time or more

[/ QUOTE ]

furthermore I think a short-stack opponent is calling w/ any pair here.
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  #24  
Old 12-14-2005, 01:59 PM
Riverman Riverman is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

The results completely validate my previous post. This is not complicated- there is no benefit to this play in this game including meta, they pay off anyway so there is no point
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  #25  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:04 PM
yvesaint yvesaint is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

also, at this level, saying you would play Aces or sets like this really means nothing. you dont have Aces, you dont have a set, you have 9-high. i dont know about you, but i dont like depending on my opponents to fold for me to make money, i like depending on my opponents to call.

especially short stacks. i mean, i think this would be great if you had aces/set (though bet more on the flop of course). but you dont! pick better people to bluff against, bigger stacks, where you might have more fold equity, and on a different board.
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  #26  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:09 PM
crosse91 crosse91 is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

skeme, i play the stars 200 with you and these players aren't usually thinking about how you usually play sets and AA, espically the ones that don't have the sense to rebuy to a ful l stack, so that arguement goes out the window. Arguing that this is how you play your AA and sets is worthless when the opponent isn't paying attention to that. Most opponents AND DEFINATELY SHORT STACKS, are just looking at their hand, the board, and how much you've bet. There is no real meta game at 200nl.

Regards,
Crosse
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  #27  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:22 PM
BobboFitos BobboFitos is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

sry, cant win every pot
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  #28  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:26 PM
AdamBragar AdamBragar is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

I don't see what's wrong with this play. This guy hasn't done anything to assume that he has anything but a flush draw. Even if you lose this hand, it's not a huge pot and your advertising value is high. And I think your fold equity is high enough here that you win the pot often. Maybe I'd pot this turn instead of putting him all in, because people seem to like calling all ins because people feel like their masculinity is challenged if they are put all in.
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2005, 02:42 PM
crosse91 crosse91 is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

if called, it is 110bb pot. Thats of decent size. And as previously stated, there's not much advertising value here.

also, most hate to put their whole stack in the middle, not eager to b/c their being challenged.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2005, 08:29 PM
-Skeme- -Skeme- is offline
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Default Re: 97s.

[ QUOTE ]
given that you cant even beat 90% of flush draws w/9-high, i dont see how this is profitable at all

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why it is a bluff. I can't beat anything that calls.


[ QUOTE ]
The results completely validate my previous post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah they didn't. Way to be results oriented, though. If I post a hand where I get Kings to fold on a flop, do you take back what you said and admit to being wrong? Of course not.


[ QUOTE ]
also, at this level, saying you would play Aces or sets like this really means nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Arguing that this is how you play your AA and sets is worthless when the opponent isn't paying attention to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't arguing about how I play sets and AA like this or trying to justify anything.. someone said they don't think I play my Aces this way and I said I do. I didn't bring it up previously or touch it again afgter.


[ QUOTE ]
There is no real meta game at 200nl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. I've had several players label me a maniac in the chat box because I raise their button all the time. I've also appeared to be tilting and gotten a decent big stack to push over 200BBs into me with KJo after I limp-reraised to $50 from UTG. But yeah, it's not huge.. I wasn't TRYING to get called and win it back later with my horrible image.


[ QUOTE ]
And as previously stated, there's not much advertising value here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I even want this, I want a fold immediately, but how is there not advertising value? You don't think they'll see me bluff and think I suck? If anything, a good player wouldn't fall for this, but bad ones will. Bad players think calling 3xBB preflop with 22 is a fishy play.
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