Big pot River decision against clown and tighty whitey

[MEbenhoe]

MP is laggity lag but tends to puss out on the river
CO is tight passive all the way

Hero is SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop: UTG limps, MP raises, CO calls, I call, BB folds UTG calls

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

check, check, bet, call, call, fold

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

check, bet, call, I raise, MP 3 bets, CO calls two cold, I cap, both call

River: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 18 BBs)

What is your line from here?

[sthief09]

I like a 3-bet preflop. good multiway hand, a light raiser, some cold callers, and the button. I like that spot

also raise the flop. this isn't the type of board where I want to be letting people in. there's nothing to really draw to except gut shots. calling won't keep people in with overcards like it would on a T high flop, but it will keep them in with hands that can beat you. I happen to think not raising here is really bad. KJ, KQ, QJ are out there a lot.

turn fine but in his range of hands, I'd have a set in there for MP. he raised preflop, check-called the flop, and check-3bet the turn. that screams set. I like a cap but you have to be careful.

river, if MP bets and CO folds, then I flat call. if MP bets and CO raises I think you gotta fold if you have a strong read on the CO. if MP checks and CO bets, I just call. if MP bets and CO calls then I raise. if it's checked to you bet and call a raise

[MEbenhoe]

I agree with every part of your post except this

[ QUOTE ]
also raise the flop. this isn't the type of board where I want to be letting people in. there's nothing to really draw to except gut shots. calling won't keep people in with overcards like it would on a T high flop, but it will keep them in with hands that can beat you. I happen to think not raising here is really bad. KJ, KQ, QJ are out there a lot.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think raising the flop accomplishes much here. I raise, MP calls and CO trails along behind. Then I bet the turn and get two callers and gutshots have the odds to call the turn now anyways. So I'm in the exact same spot going into the river except now the pot is smaller. I think really the only situation where the raise would benefit me is if it causes me to get the hand heads up between myself and MP which seems pretty unlikely to me.

[sthief09]

except gut shots are correct to fold the flop for a raise. also, there is no guarantee the tight passive guy bets the turn. also, you have the best hand. that's as good a reason as any to raise. I still think calling the flop is really bad