Suited Connectors on Tight Table

[phredd]

I didn't get the official hand history, so this is from memory, but should be pretty accurate. No specific reads on the players, but the table in general is surprisingly tight and reasonably aggressive. Often a pre-flop raise, generally four-handed on the flop, heads-up by the river more often than not. (Actually, I was about to change tables for a less hostile environment when this hand was played.)

PokerRoom .5/1 (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666"> 1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666"> 2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666"> 1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="red"> BB raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (<font color="blue">5 players</font>)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="red"> BB raises </font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (<font color="blue">3 players</font>)
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, <font color="red">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (<font color="blue">2 players</font>)
<font color="red">BB bets</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, <font color="red">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23 BB


How did I do here? Should I fold PF given my table read? How strongly should I play an OESD and backdoor flush draw on the flop? On the turn I figured I should raise so long as I had two opponents, but once we're heads-up, just call. Cap the river?

[davelin]

I'd just call the turn. Tempted to cap the river.

[Marquis]

Flop is good. Raising the turn gets you nothing. You haven't made your hand yet and you don't have enough outs to be bloating the pot. Raising the turn on a draw with no made hand is almost always a bad idea.

Cap the river. No way does he have a flush.

[tewall]

pf call looks fine. Two people had already limped in.

On the flop betting is imperative. The pot is large.

On the turn I don't see the purpose of your raise. You've got a ton of outs, so it can't be a very bad play, but what was your purpose in raising?

On the river, definately cap. Flush/flush doesn't happen very often. It's much more likely that the guy doesn't think you have it then that he has a higher flush. He re-raised you on the turn, when he couldn't have had a flush. It's not likely he was re-raising you on a flush draw. You can't let worrying about what someone might have keep you from getting those extra bets in.

[phredd]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I don't see the purpose of your raise. You've got a ton of outs, so it can't be a very bad play, but what was your purpose in raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 15 outs, and a player in ahead of me. I figure raising is for value against two opponents, or it may knock out one or the other - BB if he's got a lesser hand than he represented on the flop, or UTG if BB raises. It isn't a made hand, so having anyone fold any kind of a draw is OK, but if both players are in, that's +EV, too. I figure it's a win-win.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd just call the turn. Tempted to cap the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just call the turn and would definitely cap the river. If he's got a flush here it's 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He's got 66, A9, A6 a lot more often.

Rob

[phredd]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the turn gets you nothing. You haven't made your hand yet and you don't have enough outs to be bloating the pot. Raising the turn on a draw with no made hand is almost always a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have at least 13 outs here, most likely. 9 suited cards, plus the straight. I don't mean this critically, but in your opinion, how many outs do you need to bloat the pot? Everyone who has replied so far has said the same thing, so perhaps this is a hole in my game.

[phredd]

[ QUOTE ]


I have 15 outs...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, that's 13. Typo.

[dawade]

Except for that check on the flop I'm thinking BB maybe has AA or am I retarded? I fold this hand preflop, especially after the description of said table. Anywho, that's about as good a flop as you can ask for, and even better turn and river cards! I like the flop bet, the turn raise, and the river call. I might be inclined to go ahead and cap the river and expect to be shown AA or some other two pair/set.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the turn gets you nothing. You haven't made your hand yet and you don't have enough outs to be bloating the pot. Raising the turn on a draw with no made hand is almost always a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have at least 13 outs here, most likely. 9 suited cards, plus the straight. I don't mean this critically, but in your opinion, how many outs do you need to bloat the pot? Everyone who has replied so far has said the same thing, so perhaps this is a hole in my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hole in your game is not knowing how many outs you need to "bloat" the pot.

If UTG will never fold, you need to be getting over 2:1 on your money, which means a 15-outer is almost sufficent (15-outer is 2.06:1). 16 outs would be sufficient. But here's the big deal: you don't want UTG to fold, and you really want BB to lead out on a favorable river, allowing you to raise and trap UTG for at least one bet most of the time.

Rob