Suited Connectors on Tight Table

[tewall]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the turn on a draw with no made hand is almost always a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there had been just one more player competing, he could raise for value. Even in his case, with only 3, he's got 15 outs (from memory, I think that's right) which is about the odds he's getting from the pot, so raising for value is break/even pretty much break even. If there were one few player (i.e. only 1 opponent), and hero had overcards, raising could be a good idea.

[tewall]

I was wondering if you're thinking was to knock someone out. That's a good way to think, in general. However in this case, the guy who got knocked out is very unlikely to make a hand, or have a hand, that would prevent you from winning the pot; this possibility is remote. Something like a card pairing you winning the pot which beats BB but loses to the guy who would have folded would have to happen. So while this is a good way of thinking, it seems very unlikely in this particular scenario.

If you call, then he might call, which is what you want, so if you hit, maybe you'll get another bet on the river. BB has been aggressive, so he's likely to re-raise you if you raise, which you don't want.

Your raise for value only works if you get two callers, so your raise accomplishes two things:
1) knocks out the non-BB guy.
2) builds the pot for BB.

So I think it's a slightly bad play. Not capping the river was much worse. Raising the turn probably cost you some small portion of a bet, but not capping the turn costs almost a whole bet.

[bozlax]

I'm ok with the double-limp preflop.

Similarly I'm ok with the bet/call on the flop, even knowing I'm likely to be C/R'd by the BB (I'd be more angry if this checked through than if most of the field was faced with 2 cold).

I don't like the turn raise. You're closing the action, and it's a pretty good guess that BB is 3-betting and driving out UTG who I'd probably be happier to keep in.

Why no cap on the river? Without a very specific read that BB would play KQs/KJs/etc. like this on the flop (PFR would make sense, but raising the flop with just a 3-flush is a little aggro), I'm pretty sure you're looking at AA/99/A9/A6, here. If you're good often enough to value-raise once, you're good often enough to do it twice.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a good way to think, in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not with drawing hands.

[phredd]

[ QUOTE ]
The hole in your game is not knowing how many outs you need to "bloat" the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of many, no doubt. I am pretty much a newb.

[ QUOTE ]
If UTG will never fold, you need to be getting over 2:1 on your money, which means a 15-outer is almost sufficent (15-outer is 2.06:1). 16 outs would be sufficient. But here's the big deal: you don't want UTG to fold, and you really want BB to lead out on a favorable river, allowing you to raise and trap UTG for at least one bet most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

[phredd]

[ QUOTE ]
I was wondering if you're thinking was to knock someone out. That's a good way to think, in general. However in this case, the guy who got knocked out is very unlikely to make a hand, or have a hand, that would prevent you from winning the pot; this possibility is remote. Something like a card pairing you winning the pot which beats BB but loses to the guy who would have folded would have to happen. So while this is a good way of thinking, it seems very unlikely in this particular scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that seems right. I thought it was win/win, but I think you and others are probably correct that it is better just to call here and push a favorable river. I have the advantage that the flush is backdoor, making it somewhat unexpected, so even looking at a made hand, the opponents may not suspect it.

[ QUOTE ]
Not capping the river was much worse. Raising the turn probably cost you some small portion of a bet, but not capping the turn costs almost a whole bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I agree, and that's definitely one reason I posted. I seem to have trouble capping without the stone cold nuts, but in retrospect it seems the obvious play.

Incidentally, BB showed a set of aces.

[tewall]

"That's a good way to think, in general."

"Not with drawing hands."

Yes it is, depending on the draw. E.g. if the draw has overcards, or even just overcards to say the second highest card on the board, and your raise can get out someone who would have beat you had you not raised, then the raise is worthwhile. E.g. say you have A7s and the pot is large, and you're drawing at a flush. If you raise and someone with ATo gets out, and an Ace comes, you win a pot you would have lost, so it's well worth raising in this situation. In the actual hand given, not raising was very unlikely to result in losing the pot, but there are many times where not raising with a drawing hand in a large pot is an error.

[gvibes]

BB has AA, like, every time here. Cap the river.

[Delzek15]

I'd cap the river. I think he's playing A/A the way he check/raised on the flop. Too strong for A/K in my opinion. Cap the river and crack his set of aces.

[phredd]

Yes, villain had AA, and I had indeed cracked his set. I should have capped the river.

Thanks, all.