Happy Hour KK hand. Fold Preflop?!

[AtlBrvs4Life]

Listen to Bill Fillmaff. Fold KK preflop. They are not the nuts. Play perfect poker.

















Play perfect poker.
Play perfect poker.
Play perfect poker.
Play perfect poker.

[0evg0]

Whatever. Like I said, I put his range on QQ/KK/AA/AK.

Yes, I believe he folds TT and JJ without any problem.

If I put myself in his place, I put "me" on the same range of QQ+/AK. So if he is able to do that as well (and why shouldn't he be able to?) then explain how TT/JJ even get to be in this conversation. The fact of the matter is:

-He is table leader.
-He knows I have QQ+/AK, and with the amount invested I will call his all-in regardless of which of those hands I have.
-I am the only person at the table who can cripple him.

So then why would he put his money in with QQ knowing that he's a dog against the range he puts me on (even if he includes JJ) knowing that I will call his all-in?

Why would he put all of his chips in for a "potential" coinflip (though if he puts me on even JJ+/AK it's obviously not a flip) when he has nothing invested and virtually 0 FE?

I thought for about 5 seconds, convinced myself that I was correct about his AA, and then hit the "You'd Be A [censored] Moron To Fold This" button.

End of thread.

[TomHimself]

I dont know why you even posted that example because noone is folding KK there. and you really dont need a analysis to realize that

[2005]

[ QUOTE ]
The band-aid "never fold KK preflop online" statement really is out of line.

You are in the Stars 25k, there are 38 left with $15k for 1st. You are currently in 14th place with t280,000 and blinds are 10k/20k plus antes.

You are the 2nd biggest stack at the table, just behind the leader with 300k who is very solid and a known commodity as a winner.

You have a tight image and have shown down AK, AK, JJ, and 77 (against a shortstack) in 45 minutes.

You pick up KK UTG and raise 4xBB to 80k.

Folded to chipleader who pushes all-in for 300k, and it is folded back to you.

Thus far he has not shown any propensity towards wild plays, and the only time he has come over the top was with QQ vs a medium-stack that would not cripple him.

There are times when folding KK is correct. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this supposed to be an argument for folding KK preflop??? It's a pretty weak one. I'd call here all day every day. The fact that he's shown to be a winning player means that he should have some sort of move in his bag other than playing just the nuts.

[z32fanatic]

How does he know you have QQ-AK? Did you tell him you post on 2+2 and are a tight player? If he knew you would fold everything but AA to a reraise in that situation, he should be reraising you everytime. Don't over think it too much or you'll start seeing non-existant monsters everywhere. I don't think many people in the stars rebuy ever fold JJ at this stage in the tourney.

[2005]

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever. Like I said, I put his range on QQ/KK/AA/AK.

Yes, I believe he folds TT and JJ without any problem.

If I put myself in his place, I put "me" on the same range of QQ+/AK. So if he is able to do that as well (and why shouldn't he be able to?) then explain how TT/JJ even get to be in this conversation. The fact of the matter is:

-He is table leader.
-He knows I have QQ+/AK, and with the amount invested I will call his all-in regardless of which of those hands I have.
-I am the only person at the table who can cripple him.

So then why would he put his money in with QQ knowing that he's a dog against the range he puts me on (even if he includes JJ) knowing that I will call his all-in?

Why would he put all of his chips in for a "potential" coinflip (though if he puts me on even JJ+/AK it's obviously not a flip) when he has nothing invested and virtually 0 FE?

I thought for about 5 seconds, convinced myself that I was correct about his AA, and then hit the "You'd Be A [censored] Moron To Fold This" button.

End of thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if I'm reading this right....

You're opening range is QQ or better and AK, his pushing range is the same and you consider both you and him to be winning playes? These are all pretty ridiculous statements.

[0evg0]

Yes, of course, but when average stack is 8-9xBB, no matter how good you are, there aren't exactly that many "moves" to be made.

And posting on 2+2 = respect? What?

I've played with Villain in all kinds of tournaments a million different times. He knows I'm not making this play with 22 or AJ.

And finally, I'm not one to fold anything but AA - as was obviously shown when I called on this hand. I'm sure I'm giving the impression that I'm some kind of nut peddler, but nothing can be farther from the truth. I would be surprised if Villain thought he had any FE at all when he pushed.

[AtlBrvs4Life]

Are you disagreeing with Bill Fillmaff? You need to pick up a copy of Secret System immediately. www.billfillmaff.com

[Tapin]

Hey wait, this hand is illegal. You're only allowed a bet and three raises in no-limit!

...oh, wait, it wasn't at the Bike. Nevermind.