Plugging leaks at 3/6: QQ UI

BigBrother · #1 10-18-2005, 05:22 PM

My 4th hand at this table.

Villain is around 28/10/2.3 over 80 hands, but has been running well, according to the numbers I have on him.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.66 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.66 BB

#2 10-18-2005, 05:30 PM

Why not capping preflop?

detruncate · #3 10-18-2005, 06:10 PM

Your thought process seems inconsistent throughout. You don't cap pf then donk an A on the flop. And then you check/call the turn and donk the river (which seems to be the strangest play of all).

What range to you put Villain on pf? It would seem to play into why you decided not to cap. Are you waiting for a safe flop? If so the flop bet doesn't make a lot of sense. You're probably also more likely to be able to push Villain off a better hand after capping pf if that was your thought.

What were you thinking when he just called your flop bet? On first glance you seem to be checking the turn with a hand that's likely to be behind but has outs, but your river donk suggests that you think you have the best hand often enough that you're afraid of it checking through (or that you're overly optimistic about pushing him off a better hand).

I cap this pf, bet/call the flop and go from there.

Carmine · #4 10-18-2005, 06:16 PM

I agree this was played very strangly. I would also like to hear your thought process through the hand

WillMagic · #5 10-18-2005, 06:41 PM

I hate it all.

Preflop: I cap...though I concede this is a stylistic preference.

Flop: Assuming I just call the three-bet, I hate hate hate your donkbet. It gets us no information whatsoever. It never sells KK or QQ on the fact that we have an ace, so we get no fold equity from it. Congrats, your bet accomplishes nothing. What's so bad about just check-folding here? You are behind villain's range a whopping amount of the time. The pot isn't big.

Turn:

Check-calling seems awful. It's superior to betting...how? The fact that you are checking here also establishes just how awful your flop donkbet was. All your opponent did was call, which he does with EVERY one of his holdings, and you still can't lead into him again.

River: And, thanks to your cruddy play on the previous streets, we have NO CLUE what our opponent is holding at this point in the hand. What do you EVER get value from in this spot? JJ/TT? I don't see it. Check/fold.

The whole hand is a massive attack of FPS.

Will

BigBrother · #6 10-18-2005, 06:49 PM

Preflop, no idea why I did not cap, I normally would.

Flop: [censored], there's an Ace and he threebet my raise, I have to bet/call but I'm OOP and this could suck. He could have 99-JJ, the other QQ, or AQ, AK, KK, AA, so I am the favorite to be behind but I do have the back-door second nut FD to fall back on.

Turn: Well he smooth called me on the flop.

I wish I would have capped preflop cuz then I might have a better idea where I stand. Either he doesn't have the Ace or he's waiting to pop me on the turn.

Because of the Hearts out there, it's less likely he has the ace (he should want to raise the flop and charge me to draw to hearts HU).

The Heart came, so If I bet I have to call. If I check he will bet no matter what since I have shown enough strength. I will check-call.

River: No heart, I am unimproved. Not likely he has Hearts, so I'm good against an underpair, chop the other QQ, and lose to an Ace. Any hand that can raise me has me beat, but underpairs will call so I bet/fold.

I'm definitely not saying I'm happy with the line, that's why I posted. The hand would have played better had I capped preflop, but I always have trouble in marginal situations OOP when new to a table and I don't have a good feel yet for my opponents.

shant · #7 10-18-2005, 06:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because of the Hearts out there, it's less likely he has the ace (he should want to raise the flop and charge me to draw to hearts HU).

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think this makes an Ace more or less likely.

#8 10-18-2005, 06:58 PM

I like preflop because you should be mixing up capping/not capping here.

After the flop bet, you're hoping he made a call with JJ or TT, which he might after you choose not to cap preflop (or he may think you are FOS, but that is tough to assume after 4 hands). Nonetheless, I think you are well behind here and can now check fold the turn, or if you are unsatisfied with the flop information, bet fold.

crazygoose · #9 10-18-2005, 07:06 PM

Given he just smooth called the flop bet he either has TPTK, trips, or an under pair (possibly KQs but I see that raising (hearts) or folding the flop). The worst part about this hand is that you bet out the river. Given the way he played the hand I think you are behind more than half the time so value betting is incorrect. Calling maybe ok but I don't like it. 12 combos of AK, 8 combos of AQ, 1 combo of KQs in hearts, 3 AA, 6 KK = 30. I'm pretty sure there are a lot less under pairs out there and he is probably not betting all of them on the river everytime. So I don't think you are getting odds to check call the river.

BigBrother · #10 10-18-2005, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate it all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input. I didn't like it much myself, which is why I posted. Reviewing and learning here helps reduce making bonehead moves in the heat of battle. Can you give a couple specific recommendations?

Do you check-fold every premium PP that sees a 3-bet pf and an Ace on the flop HU OOP? Is this +EV?

What 3-bet range do you give to a 28/12/2.3 from EP in the Party 3/6 full (given that he could be tighter than that cuz he's been running well over the 80 hands I have on him)?

If you get to the turn and you bet, do you call a raise to draw to the 2nd nut flush, then c/f the river UI? What if he smooth-calls your turn bet?

What % of the time is QQ good here?