stars 30 60,

etizzle · #1 10-29-2005, 11:49 PM

does anyone bet the turn or call the river?

no numbers at all, just sat down.

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (4 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB

tizim · #2 10-30-2005, 04:42 AM

I play it the same. It's tough to decifer the turn check because it doesn't make any sense, but it does decrease the likelihood he's on a bluff. If he was bluffing on the flop, he'd bet this turn almost always because he'd be in a bluffing mentality and thus wouldn't be scared of any turn cards or of getting raised on the turn. If he was semibluffing the flop with J8/87/8dxd, I guess the turn check would make some sense since he now wants to get to showdown, but whatever the case is, I doubt you're good 1/6 on the river.

Also, the turn check is good--I can't think of any significant reason to bet it, and you subject yourself to a CR when you really wouldn't like to get CR'd.

TStoneMBD · #3 10-30-2005, 04:47 AM

isnt his play in line with alot of Ax type of hands that youre ahead of? i think alot of players would bet this river with ace high even after the turn action. he could of course have a flush draw.

i really struggle with these situations and i think i might take ace high to showdown a little too often here.

cartman · #4 10-30-2005, 04:49 AM

Weird lines like this confuse me into calling the river alot with a big Ace. I think you were definitely correct to check the turn.

Cartman

Drontier · #5 10-30-2005, 04:50 AM

can someone do osme math for me? assume that we play this hand from the opponents perspective and we know 100% that he has AK AQ (some hand with 2 overs and no draw). All we have is a small pair. By betting the turn, we know 100% villain will fold unless he hits(though we dont know which 2 overs he has). If we check the turn, he will always check behind and call a river bet. However, if a Q/K/A hits the turn and we bet(and he hits) he is waiting for river to raise everytime and we plan to pay him off everytime on the river. Which is the better line?

tizim · #6 10-30-2005, 04:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
isnt his play in line with alot of Ax type of hands that youre ahead of? i think alot of players would bet this river with ace high even after the turn action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your thinking here's inconsistent IMO. If he checked Ax on the turn, it indicates that he doesn't want to get semibluff-raised and would rather induce a bluff and get to showdown cheaply. Why would he all of a sudden bet the river? Maybe he thinks he has a valuebet, but that's very unlikely.

[ QUOTE ]
he could of course have a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

People in bluffing/semibluffing mentalities rarely ever check these turns unless they're checkraising, and only the maniacs do that.

etizzle · #7 10-30-2005, 02:16 PM

well, i dont know why he'd play an ace like this. It seems like he would want to get to showdown, and i think he'd be pretty likely to bet the turn too if he checkraised Ax on the flop.

I just dont understand what hands he would want to check on the turn. I guess its prob either the nuts or an 87 type hand that wants to get to showdown.

TStoneMBD · #8 10-30-2005, 03:21 PM

im surprised you guys are saying my thoughts are inconsistent... i see people do stuff like this all the time, but maybe not as often enough to make the river call profitable. if people didnt do this stuff all the time then your river fold would be standard and you wouldnt have even bothered making this thread. you guys are basically saying the only possible hand he could have at this point is a pair, but if thats the case why is this here?

etizzle · #9 10-30-2005, 04:03 PM

well i still think that i made the right play to fold, but i'm not certain. also, i think betting the turn and taking a free showdown if called is a perfectly good line, and those saying to call the river after checking the turn make good points as well.

and I dont think he always has a pair, i just dont think he has A high. If he doesnt have a pair he probably has K high or worse IMO.

baronzeus · #10 10-30-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well i still think that i made the right play to fold, but i'm not certain. also, i think betting the turn and taking a free showdown if called is a perfectly good line

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont see how calling the river can be wrong if betting the turn for a free showdown is right. can you please explain?