Heaven and Hell

garyjacosta · #1 08-10-2005, 02:26 AM

I am unclear on a few things here.

1. All things being equal, do you go to Hell because you are bad, or go to Heaven because you are good?

2. If, at the end of your lifetime, everything you have done balances out, which place do you go to? Is there a lightning round to decide?

3. Does each place have a quota? Even if we ignore the problems with population control, it seems to me that each place would have an ever increasing need for labor... you know, keeping the furnaces burning and such.

4. If there is a quota, my dad fought in 'Nam..... does he get graded on a weighted scale?

5. If I'm good, and I praise God's name, and worship faithfully... Do I get to quit the ass-kissing when I get to Heaven? Because, I'm married and have to field the "Do I look fat in this" question enough as it is. I don't think I could take eternity with someone who constantly needs to be told how great they are and how much I love them.

It's not that I don't want to believe.... I just want to clear up the ground rules on my eternal destiny before I sign up.

NotReady · #2 08-10-2005, 02:29 AM

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I don't think I could take eternity with someone who constantly needs to be told how great they are and how much I love them.

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Sounds like you have nothing to worry about.

Alex/Mugaaz · #3 08-10-2005, 02:33 AM

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I don't think I could take eternity with someone who constantly needs to be told how great they are and how much I love them.

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Sounds like you have nothing to worry about.

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This is by far the best NotReady post.

sexdrugsmoney · #4 08-10-2005, 03:06 AM

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I am unclear on a few things here.

1. All things being equal, do you go to Hell because you are bad, or go to Heaven because you are good?

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To define "Good" and "Bad", whose defintions are you using? God's right? Who's God? Good question. Heaven and Hell are mostly Judeo-Christian concepts (also see Islam although it came to fruition 500 years after the last 'official' book of Christianity was written), you could also look into Zoroastrianism to see their defintion of an afterlife.

But assuming as most of the world does that your 'Heaven and Hell' is the Christian one, you should read the New Testament, but in a nutshell if you accept Jesus' sacrifice it would appear you are "saved" from Hell, provided you don't take the Mark of the Beast if you are on earth when it occurs.

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2. If, at the end of your lifetime, everything you have done balances out, which place do you go to? Is there a lightning round to decide?

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The nature of the Judeo-Christian God is very complex, and it may not be possible to ever 'know' God properly from some old texts.

If you read the Bible you see God is in some respects like us. He can change his mind, get angry and jealous, show great love, and on some things be negotiable. (Abraham pleading with God concerning the destrcution of Sodom and Gomorrah)

On Salvation according to the New Testament, acceptance of the sacrifice (Jesus) is mandatory it would appear, unless you has never heard of Jesus in which case God would judge you seperate to those who had heard and chosen to accept/reject.

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3. Does each place have a quota? Even if we ignore the problems with population control, it seems to me that each place would have an ever increasing need for labor... you know, keeping the furnaces burning and such.

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According to the Jehovoah's Witnesses, Heaven can only hold 144,000 people, although every other Christian sect regardings this sect as a cult (sorry if there are any JW's here) and their "New World Translation" of the Bible has been subject to criticism as finding things in the Greek than no other translations agree with, and to date the JW's have declined to defend their unique "New World Translation".

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4. If there is a quota, my dad fought in 'Nam..... does he get graded on a weighted scale?

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If God created Heaven and Earth because he felt like it, it would be highly improbable that if heaven got full that he could not expand it or make another. (the Book of Revelations says God will create a new heaven and new earth)

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5. If I'm good, and I praise God's name, and worship faithfully... Do I get to quit the ass-kissing when I get to Heaven? Because, I'm married and have to field the "Do I look fat in this" question enough as it is. I don't think I could take eternity with someone who constantly needs to be told how great they are and how much I love them.

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Apparently when you get there you will partake in the worship of God with the angels.

Ofcourse you are assuming when you get to Heaven (if) that you will see this practice through the perception you currently have now, yet the Bible says 'you will be a new creature' and without 'sin', therefore you may find you want to worship God when (if) you are in his presence.

"There is no reality, only perception".

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It's not that I don't want to believe.... I just want to clear up the ground rules on my eternal destiny before I sign up.

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You assume signing the contract is potentially worse than not signing the contract, however almost every religion would disagree with you. (ofcourse they would!)

If you look at the Old Testament, clearly it is better to be with God than against him.

If you look at the New Testament, it's the same deal.

If you look at Islam, it's the same deal.

If your think of your soul as a casino chip given to you for free, of Life as a casino, and of a big wheel in the Casino with every religion/ideology on it, you have two choices:

1. Bet.
2. Don't bet.

When you leave the casino, your chip is worthless according to the major religions as you 'missed your chance' (well, maybe the 'lightning round' may save you) so therefore it's better to 'place a bet' right, as the implied odds are huge.

But what if you're wrong?

What if you bet on SexDrugsMoneyism and it turns out there was a God and it's not SDM?

Since God is totally arbitrary in decision making, you may be able to cite a reason for choosing SexDrugsMoneyism and God may understand, who knows ... I don't. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Almost everyone "places a bet", even if it's on athiesm or agnosticism. The only people who don't place a bet are those without the capacity to decide, or perhaps those who can go through life and feel no conviction either way on anything being true ... and who knows how God will treat them ... I don't know.

Read, Read, and Think. Then read some more, and place a bet, the wheel is spinning you know. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Cheers,
SDM

PairTheBoard · #5 08-10-2005, 03:18 AM

Maybe you're thinking too far ahead.

"The kingdom of heaven is upon you"

-- Jesus

PairTheBoard

sexdrugsmoney · #6 08-10-2005, 03:22 AM

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"The kingdom of heaven is upon you"

-- Jesus

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Which Jesus? The one that works at the 7-11 in Pasadena, Californa or another one?

Source? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

PairTheBoard · #7 08-10-2005, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"The kingdom of heaven is upon you"

-- Jesus

[/ QUOTE ]

Which Jesus? The one that works at the 7-11 in Pasadena, Californa or another one?

Source? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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It's part of an oral tradition. My d in y..... oh nevermind.

PairTheBoard

sexdrugsmoney · #8 08-10-2005, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"The kingdom of heaven is upon you"

-- Jesus

[/ QUOTE ]

Which Jesus? The one that works at the 7-11 in Pasadena, Californa or another one?

Source? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It's part of an oral tradition. My d in y..... oh nevermind.

PairTheBoard

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Yeah ... umm ... great response ... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

usmhot · #9 08-10-2005, 04:47 AM

Regardless of what the various 'religious officials' say about their 'good book' being written by the hand of God, the fact is all of them were written by some man/men's hands. Even if God was speaking directly to the minds of the writers, those minds are limited by our corporeal existence and so not capable of truly understanding and interpreting the 'word of God'. So, I wouldn't hold too much store by the literal meaning of what has been written. Rather look for the core and central themes, which are common across the various religions.
I think you'll find that most reasonable and intelligent people aren't fooled by the details in the various 'good books'. (After all, don't they say 'the devil is in the details'.)
In general, people would feel (especially if they have children) that God is perfect in his love for us his children. And, no more so than a truly loving parent could condemn a wayward child to an eternity of suffering, no matter what that child did, could God condemn us, his children, to an eternity of suffering.
In most of our varying views of what heaven is, the common theme is one of eternal happiness and fulfillment. Humans interpret that in their own way, and many see it as just a nicer extension of what we currently experience (think life in the burbs with a swimming pool, a 42" plasma TV and every sattelite channel in the world) but undoubtedly, if heaven exists then it would be very different to this. True joy and fulfillment will appeal to our souls and provide us with a completion and enlightenment - as many religions would put it, our souls will know pure love.
So, heaven is not really meant to be seen as a place, but rather a state of being.
And, in that context, hell is not a place either. Most people would feel that hell does not exist, except when they consider some of the horrendously evil characters that have imposed themselves on us. However, some believe that 'hell' is being exposed in full to the suffering that we have visited on others. And, by that, I don't mean being hurt or tortured in the same way, but, rather, feeling the fear and pain in exactly the same way as it was felt by our victims. Pretty horrific for some of us.

Mason Malmuth · #10 08-10-2005, 05:38 AM

Hi Gary:

For some reason your post reminded me of a short story by Mark Twain. When the hero got to heaven, he couldn't help but notice the piles of wings that seemed to be everywhere. When he inquired about this, he was told that everyone wanted a pair of wings when they got to heaven so the authorities decided to issue them. After a while, the people would realize that they had little value so they would discard them, thus the piles.

Best wishes,
Mason