LO8 cajun 5-10

[Phat Mack]

5, 5, 10, 10-20. 10 handed. Nobody at this table has a clue. I am not claiming to be the exception.

I'm in the SB w/ 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG calls; MP1 MP2 &MP3call; Button raises. Button's rasise means that among his four cards, two of them make an OK hold 'em hand. I call, BB calls, all the MPs call, and we see a flop of

A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (12 sb)

Question #1: What's the plan for playing this hand?

I bet; BB raises; Call Call Call; Button raises.

Question #2: How do I like it now?

I call 2 bets; BB caps; MP calls; Fold Fold; Button calls; I call. (BB is slightly less foolish than Button, but is not an O8 player)

Turn is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], (Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])

Question #3: How do I think about this hand now?

[Wintermute]

I a loose omaha game, I'm going to jam as much as possible with a lock nut low like that. Then I'm going to pray for a 2 or a 3.

[Buzz]

{quote]Question #1: What's the plan for playing this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mack - You're playing for the low half of the pot (but you have an uncounterfeitable low with a remote chance at a scoop). Seems like if UTG limped and then folded to Button raise, there are 13 small bets in the pot after the first betting round, but okay, let's call it 12, since that's what you indicate. No biggee.

For starters, I'd bet to see what happens. (And that's what you did).

[ QUOTE ]
I bet; BB raises; Call Call Call; Button raises.

Question #2: How do I like it now?

[/ QUOTE ]

You still like it, but are sorry there are only three opponents left in the action because of the excess early raising. But, oh well.

Looking back, if you had checked at the start of the second betting round, it probably would have worked out worse for you. In that case you'd probably only get one small bet instead of two small bets from the two MP players who folded, and your cost would still be four small bets. Thus betting yourself seems better, even in retrospect, than check/calling or check/raising.

But what now? Well... now it looks like you're probably going to get quartered or even sixthed for low and high looks even more remote than before. You hope for a deuce or trey on the turn to cut down on the chance of getting quartered or sixthed.

[ QUOTE ]
I call 2 bets; BB caps; MP calls; Fold Fold; Button calls; I call. (BB is slightly less foolish than Button, but is not an O8 player)

Turn is A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], (Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])

Question #3: How do I think about this hand now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] looks like a blank. You hoped for a deuce or a trey but that didn't happen. You still hope for a deuce or a trey on the river, especially a trey (since there's an off-chance nobody has diamonds).

I think at this point I'd go into a check/call mode and hope any of my opponents also with the current nut low shows some good sense. You're not going to lose much, if anything, by continuing, because of the dead money already in the pot.

There's an off-chance nobody else has deuce-trey for low. However, I'd fully expect to get quartered and maybe sixthed or even eighthed here.

Buzz

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
For starters, I'd bet to see what happens. (And that's what you did).

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thinking. I might it take there, or set up a play against a weak flush or a dry A. It would have helped to have A5H on a flushed board for suchplays to work. With this board, against this line-up, plays like that are pipe dreams.

The turn was checked to the button who bet. I called; BB check raised; folded to the button who raised; I called; BB capped; button called all-in.

River was a high blank. I check; BB bets $20; I call.

BB has 2h3d 7c9h; Button has 23hTJh; I get 1/6 of the middle and 1/4 of the side. I only had a couple of outs to half the pot.

[DyessMan89]

Preflop your play is fine. This is worth a limp. On the flop, you have a lock of a nut low in a game where not many people know what their doing. Unfortunatley, you have no shot at high, unless theres an off chance that nobody in the pot has 2 hearts. Im still playing on, though, I cant see laying this down. The pot is much too big to lay down a nut low. Just check/call the turn and river.

Im sure you were atleast quartered, and possibly just got a 6th.

[Buzz]

Mack - So you ended up losing about $35 on the hand? (That's how it looks to me when I stack and then divide the chips, making yours a different color).

Looking at it from one perspective, you missed your re-draw here. You really wanted a deuce or trey on the turn or river, but that didn't happen.

But you didn't <font color="white">_</font>know there would be no deuce or trey on the turn or river. If you put one of your opponents on a deuce plus trey for the raise, then there are still four cards left in the stub that might gain you sole posession of the low portion of the pot. and if you get half the pot, you actually make a profit by continuing.

Assuming you decide to complete the first round bet from the small blind, you're losing your first betting round investment, no matter what. And then you actually did a bit better by betting your flopped uncounterfeitable low yourself. It surely is correct to make those initial investments.

Seems Button and SB are both determined to bet and raise this to the moon. Both have the nut low plus a weak flush. You have to love them both, since they're "action" players. Another time you might have a better flush and get paid off from both of them.

If you <font color="white">_</font>knewthere would be no deuce or trey on the turn or river, then your best move would clearly have been to fold to the double bet on the second betting round. If all you had was a bare deuce-trey for low, and no high at all - then your best move would have been to fold to the double bet on the second betting round.

But at the point when you faced the double bet on the second betting round, you couldn't really tell you were going to be sixthed. Either SB or Button could have only the nut flush - and in that case even with unfavorable turn and river cards, you would only have gotten quartered - and then you would have broken even on the chips invested after you made the original bet on the second betting round.

If you knew both SB and Button also had the nut deuce-trey low, you should fold to the double bet.

But there's no way for you to know that and there still was a chance, from your perspective, that you'd catch a deuce or a trey on the turn or river.

The place to get out would have been when you were faced with the double bet on the second betting round.

Without such a perfect uncounterfeitable low, you could have cut your losses by folding to the double bet back on the second betting round.

But with that perfect uncounterfeitable low it's very difficult, and I think incorrect, to fold to the double bet on the second betting round.

Once you called that double bet on the second betting round, I think you were locked in the pot. That would have been the place to ditch this hand. However, I think you played correctly by calling the double bet.

Moving ahead to the fourth betting round, you'd lose even more than you lost if you folded on the fourthe betting round. So you can't fold on the fourth betting round.

Moving back to the third betting round, there are 28 small bets in the pot after the second betting round. if you could have foreseen you and two opponents would each be putting 8 small bets in the pot on the third betting round, if you're only getting quartered you'll make money by staying in the hand - and if somehow the river is a deuce or trey, you'll make even more. Finally, if you had folded to a bet on the third betting round, you'd have lost the $30 you had already invested. By taking a chance on the river, you really only risked five more dollars.

So on the third and fourth betting rounds, you were stuck because of the size of the pot.

As it turned out, the optimal way to have played this hand would have been to have not completed your small blind bet. but you'd be playing way, way, way too tight to not complete with this starting hand. 2346d, while not a premium hand, figures to win often enough to be profitable. It would be a mistake not to include this fine starting hand in your arsenal.

Bottom line: I can't see where you did anything wrong. I don't see how you could have gotten out of this pot at any point and still have played poker well. In my humble opinion, you were simply destined to get screwed here.

Chalk this loss up to a bit of pure bad luck.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to love them both, since they're "action" players. Another time you might have a better flush and get paid off from both of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I've played a wide variety of O8 games recently, but this was first game in several months that had so many action players. I was loving it.

[ QUOTE ]
If you knew both SB and Button also had the nut deuce-trey low, you should fold to the double bet.

But there's no way for you to know that and there still was a chance, from your perspective, that you'd catch a deuce or a trey on the turn or river.

The place to get out would have been when you were faced with the double bet on the second betting round.

Without such a perfect uncounterfeitable low, you could have cut your losses by folding to the double bet back on the second betting round.

But with that perfect uncounterfeitable low it's very difficult, and I think incorrect, to fold to the double bet on the second betting round.

Once you called that double bet on the second betting round, I think you were locked in the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, the interesting decision in this hand is whether to call the double raise on the second betting round. I couldn't really put anybody on a hand. I assumed that there was a flush out there, and perhaps a set. With the ace on the flop, it's possible that the players felt that any two unpaired wheel cards were good for low. I assumed that BB would cap it, and since the MPs had already called two bets cold, I could hope that they would call two more.

When I first look at a O8 hand, I try to envision how I'm going to scoop or 3/4 the pot with it. When it came back to me for two bets on the 2nd betting round, I knew I was only playing for half, a situation I hate to be in for image and morale purposes. On the other hand, it's difficult to catch big hands that are contending both ways, and it's poor limit O8 play to constantly fear being quartered or worse. In fact, if all the MP's had seen the turn, I might have kept pounding on future rounds, knowing full well that basically I was trying to break even.

I wasn't unhappy with the way I played this, but wanted some other perspectives. Thanks for all responses.

Mack