What's the best (cheapest) way to incorporate "trickiness?"

[Wayfare]

Hi all,

I feel that on the net, when you are playing against monkeys who you will probably never see again, ABC go-in-with-the-nuts poker is the best way to go. Howevever, in both live games and home games, the people are going to know how you play and will fold to your preflop-raise, be able to define your hand pretty well if you only raise with a small range of hands, etc. etc.

My general question is, when people refer to a good player they almost always include that he is "tricky." What makes a player tricky, and for the tricky players: how did you foster your trickiness? This is more or less a Shania question, but I'm trying to get answers specific to NL and to which situations / holdings you can use to feel your way into expanding your game.

This post thus far sounds pretty stupid, but I have a hard time getting paid off live. People know I generally don't bluff (especially when raised on the flop or past the flop in general), and may look for reasons to fold.

I think a combination of increasing the % of raising hands with position and being looser early / tighter late is the answer. However, when you are loose early you often find yourself having to committ large amounts of money on semi-bluffs or plays even on the flop.

Since this is a strategy question I thought I would post it here instead of low-limit.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

Tircky just means "unpredictable" (i cant spell) One thing you should try is this:
When im dealt 8d4d i play it like AA (obviously not if it has already been raised (although sometimes)) I actually make money with this hand, and depending on how tight you play, it can make your AA,KK etc make more money too. One time i was playing against a TAG w/ PT. He knew me very well and i knew him very well. I raise w/ my 84 diomonds, he calls. Flop comes 567. He had 66. At showdown he was lie "WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" That thru him off.

PS you cant use my hand, pick a different one!

[LBJ]

My hand is 9 6 suited. I call it "Party Poker's Secret"

I've won 3 pots with it in my 3 hours or play today for over $35 at NL 25.

Anyway, good point Pizown.....that's pretty much how I'd define tricky. To me a tricky player would be one that I can tell is a good player, but at times when I'd see his hand at showdown I'm totally confused. Very unreadable, and tough to play against.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

Being sucesfully tircky also requires good hand/player reading skills.

[bunky9590]

The easiest way bud is to start to really apply the heat in situations where you have a MEGA draw that is most likely favored on the flop but can quickly turn to crap on the turn. Start pushing your mega draws and keep the heat on them. Watch when someone calls and the draw gets there.

You pushed with Ace High??????
yummy. I'm sure you have the roll to make such aggressive plays. Just make sure to do it with some sets as well now and then and really get them screwed up.

[Wayfare]

Would the raising of any suited connector to 4x / bb plus cranking down my standard open of 6x / bb to 4x/bb work better?

I don't want to just pick a hand and pretend it's AA. There must be a more systematic way to do it.

Bunky, I have pushed with draws before and I almost never get called. I agree with "pwned" that it requires good hand reading skills, and I usually don't play live enough to really practice those.

I really gotta find an NYU home game or I am going to go crazy. BPC swings are still a little high for me.

[bunky9590]

Yeah you can raise the connectors with a pot builder raise but (I know you know this) make sure you are IN position.

Gregg

[mat]

if youre that tight and not getting called when you are pushing your draws why not start just betting more flops and picking up pots, and then fire the turn if the situation is good.i like the section of improve your poker by bob ciaffone about bluffing because he seems like a very systematic player who had to learn bluffing skills. also havent i read that you only play one table at a time on line im sure your hand reading skills are good if your working on them. i am also a tight player who sometimes doesnt get paid off i try to recognize the people who know how i play and play more aggressivly. i like what howard said about when youre willing to bet marginal hands on the river it is going to help you bluff the river as well

[TM1212]

If by trickiness you mean making your play unpredictable, your talking about applying game theory to your poker play. I highly suggest you check out Sklansky's The Theory of poker, specifically the section about game theory to develop a deep understanding of what it is and how to correctly apply it to your game.

The pervious poster had a great quick solution to adding "trickiness" to your preflop play by selecting one hand that’s weak (but not a trap hand like K10, or trash like Q3) and playing it like a big Pocket pair. Something I do when I'm on a draw to randomly add bluffing to my game. Ill usually select another card that can fall, and ill play it like I made my hand (i.e. I have JT, Board 8 9 3 A, Ill decided that if a 5 or 6 falls ill play it the same as I would if a Q or 7 fell) This is profitable, because when you make your hand you’ll get paid off more, and you can win the hand with out making your hand.

Finally, I don’t know the structure of your nl game your playing in or the type of implied pot odds your getting preflop, but if its anything like mine, adding suited and unsuited connectors to your game can be very profitable. The structure in my game is 2-4 blinds, max buyin $1,000 (which everyone buys in for and most have more when I get there). So against weak tight players who are easy to read, ill play any connector 4 5 or higher, depending on the raise. If I can limit his had to a Pair, a Broadway hand or better, I see an opportunity to break him with a weak hand like 68. If I flop right, he has no idea of my hand strength, and if I miss my flop I can fold. Eventually you'll break a tight weak player with one of these hands.

I.E. the other night there was a Weak tight player who never varies his game with a nice size stack. He always either comes in for a raise UTG or folds, unless he’s got AA, KK, QQ then he smooth calls. UTG he calls everyone folds to me 1 off the button, I have 78. I raise to $10, to misrepresent my hand, he calls {Now I know its Aces or Kings, queens he would have reraised}. Flop 659, he checks I raise $25, he comes over the top for $100, I reraise $300, he goes all in, I call, he flips over AA. When I show him my hand he goes ballistic, and starts complaining about how I could play that hand with a raise. I could play it cause I new I could break him with it. It I miss my flop all it cost me was a small investment.

[coltrane]

I think it is a general "fear of your bet".....

I play in a regular NL home game that is very juicy....stacks can get very deep and I often hear other players say they are afraid to play pots against me....

the biggest reasons for this (in a nutshell obviously) I think are just my bets.....I bet, bet, bet when I am in a pot, or else I fold.....I rarely ever check-raise and I always keep the heat on....in order to do this, I think the three keys one has to keep in mind are: position, hand reading, and implied odds.....think about it - if you're playing a hand that no one would put you on (i.e. - you're being tricky), you need to know where everyone else is at (which takes good hand reading), and this works far more advantageously when you can see what everyone else does on a betting round (position is therefore key), and you need to have the mathematical profitability of playing a weird draw (implied odds)....

I've found that when I always lead with the same kind of bet (obviously there are exceptions to this), and do it in many different situations, no one can put me on a hand...I could be betting with a monster, a mediocre hand, or absolutely nothing....

stacks do need to be deep in order to incorporate "trickiness" (read: implied odds), because there has to be a lot of money left to bet on 4th and 5th street (the streets where you are either making your draw and reaping the benefits of implied odds or taking the pot away from someone on a bluff)....

this all just cracks the surface.....honestly, I think "Super System" has some great stuff on this topic.....though the book certainly has its share of things I'll never use, there are a lot of great lines of thinking IF one knows how to take what he's saying in context.....