KK vs table LAG... do I wuss out?

Grendel · #1 06-19-2005, 04:18 AM

Take one helping of KK, mix in a ragged flop and a touch of LAG, and here you go. My thoughts went from "That's a great flop for me!" to "I want my mommy."

UTG+2 is a LAG (52/7/1.5), though he's fairly reasonable about it. I've seen him check the flop with AQs overcards that he 3-bet pf. When he does enter a pot, though, he blasts it with dynamite.

MP2 plays fairly reasonable hands (something like 30/5/0.6), but will call postflop with anything.

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, MP2 calls, Hero...?

Eek. Do I call this? I'm close to the implied odds to spike a king, but the possibility of quads might be enough to ruin that...

If I call the turn, do I plan on calling the river unimproved, getting 20:1?

-Grendel

kahntrutahn · #2 06-19-2005, 04:23 AM

Maybe I've been playing too much 6Max... but I'm not folding...

keikiwai · #3 06-19-2005, 04:36 AM

I don't think there's any way it's correct to fold this against a LAG.

Think about the hands he could be playing. Most obvious and straight forward is a pair of Queens. And he may even be right to do so. Why should he put you on a monster pocket? There's many other things you could have raised w/.

It's a ragged flop except for the Queen w/ no draws. Being this aggressive w/ a pair of Queens may not even be all that LAG. So, anyway do not fold.

Ofcourse, he could have many other things, but the point is that since he's a LAG you are likelier to be ahead than behind. Since he could have AA-77 AQ o&s KQ o&s Qx o&s (including Q2 and Q4 which you would dislike), but you see you're ahead of most of these hands, don't let the aggression make you fold. He's a LAG!

Combine this w/ you 2 almost completely clean outs (except for the small chance he has 22), and you're golden for a call down....

einbert · #4 06-19-2005, 04:36 AM

Whatever you do, don't fold.

aK13 · #5 06-19-2005, 04:37 AM

I'd 3 bet it, and call down if capped.

Grendel · #6 06-19-2005, 04:42 AM

I'm a bigger wuss than I thought.

The check-raise on the turn, following the flop check-raise, doesn't worry anyone?

Thanks for the replies,
-Grendel

einbert · #7 06-19-2005, 04:49 AM

Well reason this out logically:

The big question is, could he play a deuce this ridiculously on the flop?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the truth is that he could play MANY hands including many queens and many pocket pairs this way! In other words, if he _could_ have trip twos, then the pot is way too huge to fold given how large the range of hands he could play this way is.

If the answer to the first question is no, well then the only hands that beat you are AA and sets. Given that he didn't take an excellent opportunity to limp-reraise, I'm pretty sure we can rule out AA and QQ as possible holdings.

So, the hands that beat you in this case:

44 (3 combinations)
22 (1 combination)

Hands he might play this way that don't beat you:
AQ-QT, Q4s, A4s, 53, 56, A5, A3, etc etc
A LAG will frequently play many of these hands this way. There's no way that you aren't getting pot odds to at least call here.

jjacky · #8 06-19-2005, 11:57 AM

like some other poster already pointed out: you are probably ahead here, it`s almost impossible that you are drawing dead. i think a 3 bet is fine, to call him down is fine too. a fold would be a terrible mistake.

Paxosmotic · #9 06-19-2005, 12:18 PM

You're probably miles behind to a full house, but you have to call this bet and again on the river. The pot is way too big to let go. I could sleep just fine at night if I folded because MP2 came to life on the river, though...

FiveDays · #10 06-19-2005, 12:28 PM

The almost exact same thing happened to me yesterday - heads up though. I had KK and the flop came x7Q. I bet - call. Turn 7, just like your deuces - and I get checkraised. I fear the worst and check call the river. He has AQ.

I think that you have to slow down, but folding is out of the question.