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  #1  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:38 PM
C-Dog C-Dog is offline
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Default Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

Is this pretty much standard? Is the Bet/Fold on the river the optimal play, or is Bet/Call or Check/Call better.

I am new to the table and have only 14 hands on villain so no good reads/stats. I can say that he hasn't been out of hand since I have been there.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:47 PM
Stefan_K Stefan_K is offline
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

i think i go for the check/call since he cant call with to many hands that we are ahead of
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

I've never understood a raise like this on a blank river, so I'm inclined to call the river to find out what BB is playing. Not to mention I still think there's a chance that we're chopping if not ahead.

That said, there may be a strategy here that I'm unaware of.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:11 PM
LoaferGee12 LoaferGee12 is offline
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

This looks good. Looks like he's got an 8 to me.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

what's the basic guideline for choosing between c/c and c/f in a spot like this? i read HPFAF but it wasn't very clear to me. i thought c/c was more for if a scare card hits that he is liable to bluff at.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:24 PM
fizzleboink fizzleboink is offline
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

There are very few hands that we're ahead of that will call the river. So unless he is a gigantic calling station I think this is a check/call on the river to induce a bluff.

Note that if the turn had not paired the lowest card I think the river is a value bet.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:58 PM
Guruman Guruman is offline
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

[ QUOTE ]
There are very few hands that we're ahead of that will call the river. So unless he is a gigantic calling station I think this is a check/call on the river to induce a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally disagree. There are all manner of ace high and underpair hands that decided preflop to showdown. I'm learning to fold to this raise more (since I can't seem to find anyone bluffing it), but to check/call out of fear that we're beat is weeeeeaaaaaaak.

Ace high, lower pairs, and lots of other random paired cards that we beat willcall that river bet. They will also check behind if we let them.

blind battles are different animals than a lot of the rest of poker.

they are battles of will, and are excellent places to punish people for puffing thier chests up. Blinds are also important places to get reads and look for mistakes. If the guy to your right calls too much, then check more when behind and bet more with a hand. If he bluffs too much, then call more. If he folds too much, then bet or checkraise more.

people tend to systemtically make one mistake or another in the blinds, but my no-read default is that they call too much because the generic opponent thinks his ace high or 44 hand is good way too often.

I bet that river and consider folding when it's raised. I'm not that curious.

If people are afraid of folding here because he'll "start taking shots at me":

Let him take his shots at me. I can deal with it.

If I see this coming, then he'd better be ready to watch me start showing down king high and checkraising my strong draws.

c'mon - bluffraise me.

lets see how gung ho you are when I adjust and start threebetting middle pair.

bitch.


[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:01 PM
LoaferGee12 LoaferGee12 is offline
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

Good post, I agree.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

[ QUOTE ]
Ace high, lower pairs, and lots of other random paired cards that we beat willcall that river bet. They will also check behind if we let them.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you say Ace high, you mean something like K9 that counts as A-high because of the Ace on board? Because any holding with an Ace is beating us.

A low PP is a good candidate for a worse hand that will call. The only other random paired cards that we beat and will call are weak tens and fives.

Meanwhile any A, 8, or good T is beating us. So do low PPs, weak Ts, and 5s really outnumber As, strong Ts, or 8s here? My guess is no because a 5 seems so unlikely. I say check/call the river.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:11 PM
LoaferGee12 LoaferGee12 is offline
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Default Re: Keeping the Lead in the Blinds

[ QUOTE ]

Meanwhile any A, 8, or good T is beating us. So do low PPs, weak Ts, and 5s really outnumber As, strong Ts, or 8s here? My guess is no because a 5 seems so unlikely. I say check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has an Ace or 8, he will be betting the river when checked to anyhow so how does check-calling favor bet/folding in that aspect?
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