2 hands, advice please

Hand 1) 9-handed

Table is pretty loose passive. Flop % is about 50.

Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button.


Preflop : UTG calls, 2 folds, 3 calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop : (7SB) K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (7 Players) </font>

SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red"> UTG Bets </font> , 3 calls, Hero???

I didn't feel I could protect my hand here or on the turn for that matter. Is this just a simple value raise?

Hand 2)

Same table, same players, also 9-handed. SB had raised in the BB with 99's in an unraised pot with 4 or 5 limpers earlier. Does anyone raise hero's hand preflop?

Hero is dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop : UTG calls, 1 fold, 2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="red"> SB raises </font> , BB calls.

Flop (14 SB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (7 players) </font>

<font color="red">SB bets </font> , 2 calls, 1 fold, 1 call, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn : (12 BB) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">5 players </font>

<font color="red"> SB bets </font> , 3 calls, Hero???

I need to work on my play with overcards. Is the pot far too big to fold here?

Thanks for reading.

[Eeegah]

Raise hand 1. If he's position aware then he likely would have raised preflop if he had a King, and since he didn't I smell a flush or straight value bet. If he's not position aware then his hand range is larger and you're still likely ahead. Raise to hopefully show the blinds the door.

Hand 2: Raise KQs preflop from any position. Hell, raise KQo from any position preflop.

Flop peel is okay--I don't think a continuation raise is going to do any good. No reason to see the river imo.

[crovax4444]

*grunch*

hand 1:
Raise preflop please!

I'd also raise the flop. Remember, we have position and kicking out 2 others is a good idea

Hand 2:
Easy raise PF, I'd raise this hand in every position. Hand plays differently if you did.

Assuming SB still raised pf, I would have c/c and c/f the turn when it missed.

Crovax

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*

hand 1:
Raise preflop please!

[/ QUOTE ]

4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly.

Edit: you might find this thread interesting.

[detruncate]

I just raise the flop in hand 1. We probably have the best hand and will be giving the field 5:1 odds with the prospect of further action.

Hand 2 is an easy pf raise. I don't mind the flop call with only one player to act behind you. When you don't improve and SB leads again after getting 4 calls on the flop you have to think you're drawing slim most of the time, but we only need 3 clean outs and there are a number of hands SB could have that we beat. The other opponents could be on all sorts of things.

I'd consider making a loose call due to the pot size but don't feel like going though hand combinations just now to see how close to correct it is.

[ajm36]

[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread the hand. One limper on a loose table, this raise should be standard.

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread the hand. One limper on a loose table, this raise should be standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG calls, 2 folds, 3 calls, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not UTG limping, player 2 folding and player 3 calling.

UTG, MP1, MP2 and the cutoff limped. 4 limpers.

[crovax4444]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers and you raise KTo OTB? That's going to need some justification if you read the action correctly

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread the hand. One limper on a loose table, this raise should be standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG calls, 2 folds, 3 calls, Hero calls

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not UTG limping, player 2 folding and player 3 calling.

UTG, MP1, MP2 and the cutoff limped. 4 limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I did misread it. Then that's an easy limp. I still stand by the raise on the flop.

Crovax

[goofball]

Bonesy-

Yes, the flop raise in hand 1 is an easy rasie for value. Don't worry about protecting your hand here, you can't.

Hand 2 is a super EZ pf raise for value. Super easy, your hand is awesome in the face of all those loose limpers. Folding on the turn is ok though.

[ QUOTE ]
Folding on the turn is ok though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? We're getting 12:1 closing the action, surely our overcards are worth at least 3~4 outs?