JJ woes. Two 3/6 hands I surely need help with.

[ryanghall]

Hi there,

I've had a problem with JJ lately. The 3/6 games are far more aggressive than the 2/4 games, I'm finding, and I'm getting played back at a lot. I certainly don't usually feel comfortable with JJ getting all-in as an overpair (in *most* circumstances). Should I be more comfortable?

Here are 2 hands as examples. My image should be TAG.

Hand 1:

Villain seems laggy. He was 29/10/2 in the hands I had on him (I guess around 50).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($649)
UTG ($413.40)
UTG+1 ($778.05)
MP1 ($278.70)
MP2 ($526.60)
CO ($599.40)
Button ($673.80)
SB ($651.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $40</font>, UTG calls $34, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($95) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $90</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $373.4</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $558.40

Hand 2:

Villain is loose-passive. I think he was around 50/1/1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($633)
UTG ($582.40)
UTG+1 ($267)
MP1 ($785.40)
MP2 ($271.95)
MP3 ($483.70)
CO ($557.40)
Button ($712.90)
SB ($642.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $35</font>, MP3 calls $29, Button folds.

Flop: ($79) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $70</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to $140</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $289


Are these folds normal at this level? Am I just likely getting hit with the deck and they probably have hands? Should I not raise so much preflop (trying to give myself a good chance to take it down)? Should I bet less on the flop so I can call min-raises and reevaluate (of course, I find when I do this, another 2/3+ pot bet almost always comes at me).

I'm lost and I need help.

Thanks,
Ryan

[Tregan]

First hand is an easy fold. Can't put him on a hand that you beat unless he's bluffing and figures you for a missed flop.

Second hand is a fold against that particular villain.

Your preflop raises... meh. It's tough with lotsa limpers before you. I don't necessarily mind the big raises to try and get heads up, but in both cases you are playing a vulnerable 1-pair hand out of position in inflated pots.

There are some cases where I play JJ w/o a preflop raise. Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't seem to have nearly as many probs with JJ as others do.

[lapoker17]

It's not mandatory that you raise JJ out of the blinds. I would say don't do it if you are not yet comfortable with it. Plus, if you flop a set w JJ in an unraised pot you will break people.

These hands look fine BTW.

[Endlestorm]

I feel like if you are not going to play these to the felt on HU flops like these, you shouldn't be raising them preflop. I don't think its bad to check in the BB w/ JJ with this many limpers. If the goal is to take down the limps, raise more pf.

I don't necessarily think you need to be raising here with JJ in the BB. Of course, that is not to say you shouldn't do it, I am just saying I don't think it is "mandatory".

With respect to those two hands, I think you played them fine.

Ness

[tdomeski]

in general since you are first starting out to play 3/6 NL (I assume this by your original post)don't raise out of the BB with JJ...take a flop and play poker.

in both these hands though I would fold after the flop action. i'd assume they put me on QQ, KK, or AA and would not expect me to fold.

holler.

[ryanghall]

Alright, fair enough guys.

To be honest, I used to not raise JJ in these situations and I did quite well like that.

I guess most of the time in these situations, I raise to just take it down preflop... as well as raising to keep my game unpredictable. I think, however, that checking JJ in a 4 or 5+ player pot is right. If it's, say, 3-way, raising to take it down is probably right. The problem with checking it 4 or 5-way, however, is that when the flop comes undercards it can be quite difficult to play. I hate situations like that when I bet out the pot and get, say, min-raised.

Is QQ any sort of different circumstance here?

I normally raise QQ quite a bit out of the blinds, also hoping to take the pot down preflop.

If you had QQ in either of these two hands, I'm assuming that you'd still fold... but surely checking QQ in the BB has got to be incorrect. I guess I'm just running very poorly (easily the worst I've run since I started playing poker) and am starting to question things.

Thanks for the help so far.

Ryan

[Leptyne]

JJ-99 isn't worth much without a set. As you can see they won't stand any pressure. I hate raising from the blinds then folding to the slightest pressure. Bad for my image. When I bring it in from the blinds and make a CB you should think "fold".

On another note: 6-Max; Tight is &lt;33 VP$IP, Loose is over 46.

[freehat]

Hand 1, looks like an easy call, villain is shortstacked and unlikely to have an overpair. You'll see a random 9 and draw enough to make up for the times villain has a set.

Hand 2, a fold seems fine.

[crosse91]

you will near never set a random 9 or draw there, at least not at the 600s. That's usually a set. And by usually i mean 90%+ of the time.