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#22
08-26-2005, 03:21 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
[ QUOTE ]
isn't the more interesting question a) who the other 2+2er is, and b) which ones of you prefered which line? citanul [/ QUOTE ] a. Curtains b. Curtains liked betting 150, I liked checking according to you guys I'm in the wrong [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Seriously though, I'm shocked at how many responses that I'm seeing for betting and some of the reasoning. First, lets establish some things: -99% of the time no one has a K, its extreemly rare that they checked it twice. If they did check it twice, they're likely folding it unimproved. -99% of the time no one has a set here, this is even less likely IMO than the K. If they were slow playing a set by checking the flop, they're going to bet out on the turn at least to protect from another heart. -more than 99% of the time there isn't a weaker flush. Statistically the chance that someone else has a weaker flush is very small. Combine this small chance with the chance that they also checked their vulnerable flush. the advantages of betting: -Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might be out there and decide to draw -someone might think that you're insane and bluffing 4 other people from position when there's 3 hearts out. (very small IMO) -An idiot might call with a straight draw, a T, or who knows what it seems like the following advantages of checking are slightly better: -someone has a pocket pair or a low pair on the board and improves -an A or another card comes giving some a pair that they're willing to put money in with -a chance to bluff (this is small, but still more likely than someone reading your position bet as a steal on the turn IMO) Now I think that both lines are very close. I doubt that you're getting paid off either way. 
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#23
08-26-2005, 04:38 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] isn't the more interesting question a) who the other 2+2er is, and b) which ones of you prefered which line? citanul [/ QUOTE ] a. Curtains b. Curtains liked betting 150, I liked checking according to you guys I'm in the wrong [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Seriously though, I'm shocked at how many responses that I'm seeing for betting and some of the reasoning. First, lets establish some things: -99% of the time no one has a K, its extreemly rare that they checked it twice. If they did check it twice, they're likely folding it unimproved. -99% of the time no one has a set here, this is even less likely IMO than the K. If they were slow playing a set by checking the flop, they're going to bet out on the turn at least to protect from another heart. -more than 99% of the time there isn't a weaker flush. Statistically the chance that someone else has a weaker flush is very small. Combine this small chance with the chance that they also checked their vulnerable flush. the advantages of betting: -Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might be out there and decide to draw -someone might think that you're insane and bluffing 4 other people from position when there's 3 hearts out. (very small IMO) -An idiot might call with a straight draw, a T, or who knows what it seems like the following advantages of checking are slightly better: -someone has a pocket pair or a low pair on the board and improves -an A or another card comes giving some a pair that they're willing to put money in with -a chance to bluff (this is small, but still more likely than someone reading your position bet as a steal on the turn IMO) Now I think that both lines are very close. I doubt that you're getting paid off either way. [/ QUOTE ] I can't believe you tricked me into agreeing with Curtains. You are dealing with 4 players who limped or checked on level 3....not exactly a group of maniacs. I think someone playing passively and check/calling a K (or worse) is more likely than you do. By checking, you are really counting on someone improving, but without putting a 4th heart on the board. Even then, you aren't going to stack them anyway. Just value bet it instead, IMO.
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#24
08-26-2005, 04:43 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
MIN BET!!!! seriuosly.. it might work.. in all honesty i make a tiny little bet here around 100. i dont like checking, cuz thats what suckers do. they slowplay hands and dont make anything off of em. the best way to win chips is to build pots. thats why people that learn the nuances of pot limit ring games do better overall in poker imo. holla
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#25
08-26-2005, 04:44 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
[ QUOTE ]
MIN BET!!!! seriuosly.. it might work.. in all honesty i make a tiny little bet here around 100. i dont like checking, cuz thats what suckers do. they slowplay hands and dont make anything off of em. the best way to win chips is to build pots. thats why people that learn the nuances of pot limit ring games do better overall in poker imo. holla [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, but a smart player would be like, why would he minibet instead of check? He was last to act! Good thing players on Party arent smart palyers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#27
08-26-2005, 04:55 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but a smart player would be like, why would he minibet instead of check? He was last to act! Good thing players on Party arent smart palyers [/ QUOTE ] I really like the mini-bet idea. Let's reverse the tables. Say the OP had nothing. Would those opposed to betting here say, "Why don't you mini-bet? Nobody will call you"? I think not. As the say in SSHE, they can't call if you don't bet! If you mini-bet, you might get called by the Qh, a K or even raised by an aggressive player that smells weakness. Not betting seems like the kind of thing that the donks on the 11s would do, no offense (certainly not calling Newt a donk, but really, that's what a low level player would do).
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#29
08-26-2005, 05:03 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
It all depends on your table image, but I like making a over-sized bet into this pot, around 300. I think the only way your going to get payed off is ..
a) someone slowplayed 2 pair or a set b) They think your bluffing If its a), theyll certainly raise you. I think the oversized bet at the pot (when last to act and everyones checked to you) will send off an alarm to atleast one player. But then again, I have a LAG image, so this works better for a player like me.
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#30
08-26-2005, 05:23 PM
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Re: Help me settle this dispute with a 2+2er ($215)
I bet. The reasons for checking and betting have mostly been given, but the is The Need To Call, and someone may call with little reason, and there is the chance someone will think they are snapping off your bluff.
Btw, I am on my blackberry and can't see the suits, but I think I got what happened.
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