QQ vs uber fish

[winky51]

Uberfish #1 is 45/4%/.7 and UTG
Uberfish #2 is 36/2%/.5 and UTG+1


UTG raises, UTG+1 cold calls, Hero reraises (QQ), all fold to UTG which CAPS, UTG+1 cold calls again, Hero calls

Flop K 6 2 rainbow. 13.5 BB

UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls cold, hero??????

Hero smelled something fishy about this check raise.

[SnglMaltScotch]

I think that you are actually getting the odds to call here even if you are behind. If I read this right, there are now 18sb in the pot and it is 1 to call. You are probably stuck to 2 outs with your Qs. IMO, UTG is not C/R with KK here and I can't imagine that even Uberfish don't re-raise KK at UTG+1 so I feel that we are pretty safe from KK. I put UTG on AA or AK and UTG+1 on 99-JJ.

Call the flop and fold the turn UI.

Thought/Comments/Flames

[crunchy1]

Fold.... and these Villians are FAR from "uber".

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine that even Uberfish don't re-raise KK at UTG+1 so ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I see this kind of thing not infrequently. People don't like to raise pre-flop and like to 3-bet even less. The thrill of trapping is what draws them to the game. I am not suggesting that UTG+1 has KK, but I would not eliminate it as a possibility.

That said, getting 18-1 closing the action, this is an easy call.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold.... and these Villians are FAR from "uber".

[/ QUOTE ]
I commented w/o looking at the pot size - I can see a pot-odds-based call here. Would anyone have this decision swayed to a fold if Villian's WSD%/W$SD% stats were right? What would they need to be for you to fold the flop?

[element00]

UTG has a 4% PFR? and raised UTG and capped? So that puts his hand range to AK/KK/AA IMHO(I could be off but I doubt it).

you also got another guy in there getting these odds, you can't fold, see the turn for sure. CR could mean AK/AA(KK doubtful for villian #1 why CR flop unless he thinks he can double CR you or some fish BS.)

I've been up for many hours so i have no idea if this post makes sense or if it's of any help it's just repeating what's been said I'm sure.

[SnglMaltScotch]

There is nothing that could change that would change this to a fold. 18-1 closing the action is enough regardless of stats.

[Pharity]

You should defenitely at least call getting 18.5:1 in this spot, if your not up against a predictionable player. What limit is this? At 3/6 and up it is very common that people try to push you off something better with a pocketpair of 9's or higher in this spot. This is especially important to have in mind when dealing with this type of player, even though his postflop agression isn't very high. Im not at all convinced in this spot that i don't actually have the best hand. This is of course entirely player dependent.

If he may be tricky i would reraise the flop and bet the turn. The effective odds for such a line is somewhere around 1.5:12 which means you only have to be good 11% of the time for this to not be negative EV (if there is no reraise).

[element00]

Ahhh now I remember the point I was getting to.

Check the flop. Reasoning? What do you beat here? Hero is probably almost not ever going to cap with JJ as he is a 41/4, which means he probably does not like jacks(most of those type complain about how bad jacks suck and how they lose).

+ You have cold caller, who could have something like AK/KQs etc.

Check and take the free card. But with what went on, you gotta call.

[winky51]

UTG gad TT UTG+1 had A6o ugh!

I did call the flop UTG bet again and I folded.