Penalties To Use During Home Games?

[grandgnu]

Hello all. I run a small home game of up to 16 players a couple of times per month. Some players who know better have been violating certain rules or just conducting themselves with poor poker etiquette. I'm not sure what I should implement as a system to punish and discourage their behavoir.

Common problems are:

1. Splashing the pot when they've been reminded over and over about this.

2. I have a player who will delay the showdown, often refusing to turn over all his cards trying to see what his opponent has first. He'll also deliberately misread and lower the strength of his hand at the showdown, which is REALLY odd.

A few examples

ANNOYING PLAYER: "Oh, I just have two pair"

OTHER PLAYER: *turns over higher two pair*

ANNOYING PLAYER: "Oh, actually....I had a full house" *turns over last card to reveal boat.

EXAMPLE 2

ANNOYING PLAYER: "Oh, I just have a pair of Kings"

OTHER PLAYER: "I have two pair"

ANNOYING PLAYER: "Oh, actually, I have two pair" *turns over 2nd pair to beat opponent*

We play "cards speak for themselves" so he can use this tactic just to put people on tilt.

Obviously this is really ticking off my other players, especially since this annoying player is doing VERY well at my home game. While I've warned him at the games, I also just sent him an email letting him know he's going to scare away the other players who've proven very profitable for him this year. I also let him know that he's been warned enough and any further infractions will result in penalties as yet to be determined.

In the past he had been caught splashing the pot with less chips than the actual bet he was calling (caught twice in one night) and was told that while it was slightly amusing, his crazy antics, there was money involved and it wasn't cool or acceptable.

Now he's been caught numerous times tonight trying to get away with not putting his ante into the pot. I'm really frustrated with him and want to put him on some sort of probation where if he doesn't shape up he'll no longer be welcome back. And this is a buddy I went to high school with too, which sucks, but he needs to learn.

Anyway, does anyone have ideas for possible penalties. Here's what I'm thinking right now (to apply across the board to everyone, this particular guy is already on my [censored] list)

FIRST OFFENSE: Verbal Warning

SECOND OFFENSE: You must sit out for 5 minutes while still posting any antes/forced bets, and then fold every hand you receive during this time.

THIRD OFFENSE: Sit out for 10 minutes while posting forced bets/antes and folding all hands.

FOURTH OFFENSE: Ejection from current tournament with no refund given and no prize money awarded (even if player is already in the money). Player will be suspended from the next two events and upon return will be on probation. Any further violations after that will result in a 3-month suspension and after that a ban from all events for a year or perhaps indefinite. Any moneys they would have won during the tournament they're ejected from will be awarded evenly amongst the other players in the money.

[TenPercenter]

I'm sorry if I'm blunt, but it seems to me you're being anal about much of this. Most of the "annoying" things are just that, and if he's doing it to tilt players, apparently it's working in his favor. And a "Four Step Penalty System" seems really childish to me. I had a player once that annoyed everyone, and after a while I just had to ask him not to come any more.

As for cheating the pot, especially since he's been caught numerous times, UNINVITE HIM. PERIOD. No warnings, no hand slaps, just tell him not to come back! Friend or not, he's a cheat. In fact, if he's cheating his friends, he's not really a friend.

Ten

[Stork]

It sounds like this guys a real jackass...

Why do you let him play?

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry if I'm blunt, but it seems to me you're being anal about much of this. Most of the "annoying" things are just that, and if he's doing it to tilt players, apparently it's working in his favor. And a "Four Step Penalty System" seems really childish to me. I had a player once that annoyed everyone, and after a while I just had to ask him not to come any more.

As for cheating the pot, especially since he's been caught numerous times, UNINVITE HIM. PERIOD. No warnings, no hand slaps, just tell him not to come back! Friend or not, he's a cheat. In fact, if he's cheating his friends, he's not really a friend.

Ten

[/ QUOTE ]

Being blunt is fine, I appreciate your advice. I might be being anal, but I want to keep my game alive and run as fairly as possible. I had a problem a couple of years back with a guy who had won three events in row and people were getting mighty suspicious. We prevented him from taking his fourth win in a row because he was out of the hand and we all moved all-in and one of us got enough chips to beat him. He was pissed and complained, even though he had already won a bunch of money off us previously and wasn't losing that night.

It was a rough time, and I'd like to keep things fun for everyone. Back then we only had 4-6 players at most, now I get 8-12, even up to 16 regularly. I want to keep people coming back.

You make good points about his cheating ways. He won't be getting a four-step program, but I had been too lenient in allowing his antics to propogate. I will inform him in no uncertain terms that he will now be watched like a hawk, and even ONE misstep will result in a ban from our events.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like this guys a real jackass...

Why do you let him play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he's entertaining as all hell, funny guy. But "Ten" made a good point about him cheating friends and such. He's going to be made to realize the seriousness of this situation and his current status.

[TenPercenter]

The gist I get is that losing this guy is the end of the game. Is that right? I can't see another reason to keep him around...

Ten

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
The gist I get is that losing this guy is the end of the game. Is that right? I can't see another reason to keep him around...

Ten

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not at all. Losing him would not hurt the game. I think I've been too lenient in not applying any penalties for his actions, thus enabling him in a way. I understand your feelings about booting him completely.

Like I said, I'll inform him that he's on probation now (since there were no guidelines about this stuff before as far as penalties go) and even ONE infraction, deliberate or accidental, within the next three events will result in removal from the tournament and suspension from future events.

[Fins]

It does sound like not inviting him may be the way to go but I know how it goes. If you're all good friends or HS buddies then I would elect other ways to go... screw up do a shot prepared by the others at the table. Some friends of mine have a rule "Screw a deal face the wheel" which is a roulette like wheel with various penalties on it e.g. drink of choice is definitely a bad one (a tabasco/whiskey/jager/vodka shot or the even worse "lets go see what's in the frige" shot are not good). The "face the wheel" is often brought up when we're out for the night and is frequently done spinning a beer bottle and using off the cuff penalties on slips of paper/napkins. Usually the "wheel" is brought out anytime someone screws up and a rhyme can be made with wheel. Could do break a rule become Table Gopher for an hour (could be on the wheel)... cheat a pot, pay to a bad beat jackpot although this is definitely a don't come back for repeat offenders. The lamer annoying stuff could also be thrown back at him. I'd lean toward the call it out and make it embarrassing/unpleasant route.

Just some thougts,
Fins

[chesspain]

This so-called buddy of yours is a dickhead and a cheat. I can't even imagine why you still allow him to play. That's right, why you allow him. It's your game and you seem to have enough players to keep this game going. Just stop inviting him.

[SCfuji]

i agree. you cheat you never play again. i might even be inclined to punch him in the face.