TT in the CO against a MP LA-P

FlawedChip · #1 07-30-2005, 03:20 AM

I do not have any reads on these players, other than that the MP2 is a LA-P with a VP$IP of 90, PFR of 20%, and total aggression of 0.70 after 50 hands from a previous session. I guess this drives home the fact that taking notes is extremely important. I could have possibly avoided this situation if I had taken notes on this player.

This is a hand I recently played. After reviewing it, I think I played it completely wrong. I end up flopping a set of tens with the pot size of 21 SBs on a coordinated board. I wanted to try to protect my hand by raising on the flop, but I think that was my first mistake. I think I should have just called on the flop hoping to raise the turn if a safe card came on the turn.

I guess the flop raise would not protect my hand because the pot was large, and there are many cards that can devalue my hand. There is the flush draw and a couple of straight draws out there.

After raising on the flop and the turn bringing a third flush club, I feel like I should have just called on the turn and river instead of raising on both streets. I guess I raised the turn to see if I would get reraised by someone who made their flush. I definitely think I should have just called on the rive instead of raising.

Actually, I am not sure what would have been the best route here. Is there a standard line you guys use in this situation?

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (21 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (22.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 26.50 BB

McGahee · #2 07-30-2005, 04:03 AM

Bad example for "wait till safe card":
Your hand isn't that vulnerable. Partially because the board isn't as coordinated as you make it out to be, partially because of boat redraws, and partially because 3 of a kind is a real good hand. You also don't have the relative position to protect or extract here. There are 3 players between UTG+1 and you and 2 more between you and him. You can't shut everybody out with a turn raise, nor can you trap the entire field on the turn. Play this hand fast and raise the flop.

The turn is pretty interesting - getting donked by MP1 on the flush card. If MP2 & MP3 had called that initial bet I'd like raising because you're getting a tremendous overlay from these idiots drawing dead, and you have 10 outs to the boat even if MP1 does have the flush. With MP2&3 folding though, I'm going for overcalls. It'd suck to shut out the rest of the field and have MP1 3-bet his flush HU.

River: I give up having no idea what the hell MP1 has at this point and I'm really drunk & pissed off about getting pwned at 2/4.

macdaddy991 · #3 07-30-2005, 04:12 AM

Don't beat yourself over this hand. Sure someone woke up on the turn, but he didn't 3 bet you, so there are more possible hands that he might have then the nut flush. You had a set, and it (apparently) lost. Raising the river is more read dependant. I would probably just call here.

BTW. I feel like you are being results oriented. Just because you lost, doesn't mean that you made a lot of mistakes. You can play a hand perfectly and still lose.

FlawedChip · #4 07-30-2005, 04:22 AM

Thank you very much for the informative replies. MP1 had 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

I am trying (keyword: trying) not to be results oriented and I didn't mean to come across like that. I was just wondering if raising the flop was the best option or if a raise would not have protected my hand at that point. I understand that you can play a hand perfectly and still lose, I was just wanting to know if I went about it the correct way on this hand.

Thanks again.

macdaddy991 · #5 07-30-2005, 04:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wanting to know if I went about it the correct way on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were 16BB on the pot on the turn. Even if it was a non club, a naked flush draw could cold call a cap and it would still be a break even play.

sirana · #6 07-30-2005, 04:33 AM

grunch

you won't be able to protect your set by raising on the flop because 3 of the 5 people you are protecting against are between you and MP2. the flop raise is still good imo, since it is a decent value raise and you got MP1 to MP3 cornered for two bets.

I think the turn raise is a mistake but not a terrible one. You may still be ahead (MP1 is betting a One card Flush draw or is bluffing) and if not you got 10 outs to boat or better (1T, 3K, 3 8s, 3 5s).
I call down the river since it is very unlikely that MP1 is betting anything other than a legitimate hand, since you raised the turn.

Edit: Corrected Out count ;-)