Am I playing poorly? I think I am!

Basil · #1 08-28-2005, 03:42 PM

Let me start by saying I'm new to poker, so keep your flames to yourslef. Thanks.

I get K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Kn [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 3 limpers, Hero raise , SB BB folds. All but me folds who call.

Flop is:
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

 Hero bets , SB re-raise 
Hero calls.

Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Giving me the nut flush.

Hero call, SB re-raise etc, and we cap it.

River is:

4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets, villian calls.

I'm sorry for not using bisonbison, but Expekt.com don't support it afaik.

Reason I'm asking if I played this wrong is because i've lost 200 BB over 3 days. If I flop A set, I see Kn and Q come up, giving someone a stright. If I flop a straight, someone have a flush. If I have a flush, someone have a full house (Guess what happened above?) Hell I've flopped full houses only to be beaten with four of a kind. I know these things happen, and I'm not whining. It's just that it happenes every single hand I try to play , for 3 days in a row. I can honestly say I haven't won a single hand in 200-300 hand played in a row. Over the last 3 days I've won maybe 3 hands, total.

I know I play poorly, but even the worst player gets lucky once in a while. Is this a downswing? Is downswings when NOTHING works? No matter how hard you try?

I'm really confused weather I should play poker at all. I eather suck so bad I'll never get good at it, or I'm the unluckiest guy in the world [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Now please don't take this as whining because I'm losing. I don't really care that I'm losing money since I play at the nano limits. I DO care that I don't seem to get any better, but actually get worse instead. I went from $2 to $50 within 30 days playing .05/.10 and now I'm about to be back at $2 really soon.

Was the last month just beginners luck? Is this how bad I really am?

I should add I'm reading this site and SSHE alot.

aargh57 · #2 08-28-2005, 04:11 PM

Your hand is a little hard to read. I'm assuming you meant you had K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Then on the turn you said you got the nut flush. I don't get it, If you had pocket K's you wouldn't have hit the flush until the river. Also, do you mean to imply that you lost the hand? How? I don't see any possibility of that unless he had 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for the straight flush.

Anyway, I think your bigger question isn't so much about this hand but on downsings, whether you're good or not, etc... In short, you probably aren't that good, but neither am I and neither are the vast majority that play. However, you're reading SSH, posting/reading here, and trying to improve. That means, even though you may be lousy, you're probably better than many of your opponents (most certainly at that level). Remember, we make most of our money by the mistakes of the others at the table. The first steps are to eliminate your own mistakes and learn to punish the mistakes your oppponents make. If you keep studying and playing you will do that. Take heart, try not to let the big downswings get you down, and keep reading/studying. Don't give up the game. Perhaps you should take a short break though and just read for a few days. Make sure you have the basics down (starting hands, odds chart) and maybe play some hands on Turbo Texas Hold'Em or a similar program if you have it. Anyway, I would be interested in your hand if you could clear it up a bit. What do you mean by Kn[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

AKQJ10 · #3 08-28-2005, 04:37 PM

No flames here. I may have been a little overexuberant the other day when I couldn't tell if you were playing NLHE or LHE, but this forum should be a flame-free environment.

Like the other responder I couldn't tell if you meant KK or Kx [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I'm guessing the latter, although 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] would be a nut hand and raise the river unless he just didn't know he had a straight flush.

It sounds like your luck is just running bad. Nothing you can do about it but ride it out. One of the advantages of experience, I'm learning (though I'm still very much a new player) is that you learn to distinguish bad luck from bad play. aaargh's words on this are worth reiterating.

[ QUOTE ]
I eather suck so bad I'll never get good at it, or I'm the unluckiest guy in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

We've all been there, man. As you play more you'll see there are times when your decision making is fine, but opponents hit one draw after another. AA loses to trips on the river. Top pair-top kicker loses to a one card straight. Your high pair loses to a middle pair that makes a set on the turn. Nothing you can do about it but play as well as you can.

Just remember, if there were no luck in this game, bad players wouldn't play it! (I'll bet there aren't many casinos with chess games where you live....)

Assuming you had Kx [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I see no problem whatsoever with your play. Flop was a good semibluff bet that didn't win the pot but could have. Turn was a nut hand. River was a second-nut hand that was almost certainly best. You definitely shouldn't be check-calling the river in fear of the straight flush!

TaoTe · #4 08-28-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Let me start by saying I'm new to poker, so keep your flames to yourslef. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the most part, people don't flame others on this board. It's the beginers forum and people usually take that into account when replying.

[ QUOTE ]
I get K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Kn [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 3 limpers, Hero raise , SB BB folds. All but me folds who call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, I don't understand this.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop is:
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

 Hero bets , SB re-raise 
Hero calls.

Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Giving me the nut flush.

Hero call, SB re-raise etc, and we cap it.

River is:

4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If villian has 2 5 of diamonds and called a preflop raise, than don't worry about it. This is money that will come back. Just tell yourself villian will be holding your chips for you for awhile and she'll be giving them back with interest.

[ QUOTE ]
Reason I'm asking if I played this wrong is because i've lost 200 BB over 3 days.

[/ QUOTE ] A few things. 1) you may be playing too much poker. How much time do you play each day. 2) 3 days is a very short time in your poker career. Nothing that happens in those three days should upset you.

[ QUOTE ]
I can honestly say I haven't won a single hand in 200-300 hand played in a row. Over the last 3 days I've won maybe 3 hands, total.

[/ QUOTE ]

300 hands is a very small amount and I wouldn't give up playing just because I lost over 300 hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I know I play poorly, but even the worst player gets lucky once in a while. Is this a downswing? Is downswings when NOTHING works? No matter how hard you try?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's a downswing. Things will work though. Realize that you're in a downswing and that things come around the other side. As for flopping the nut boat, I merrily cap each betting round if someone is lucky enough to hit quads when I make the nut boat.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really confused weather I should play poker at all. I eather suck so bad I'll never get good at it, or I'm the unluckiest guy in the world [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ] That is a question only you can answer. You should find the reason why you play poker in the first place and be honest with yourself about the rest.

[ QUOTE ]
Now please don't take this as whining because I'm losing. I don't really care that I'm losing money since I play at the nano limits. I DO care that I don't seem to get any better, but actually get worse instead. I went from $2 to $50 within 30 days playing .05/.10 and now I'm about to be back at $2 really soon.

Was the last month just beginners luck? Is this how bad I really am?

I should add I'm reading this site and SSHE alot.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't know if it's beginner's luck or not but I would have to say you're now in the not-suited-for-TV part of playing poker. You can quit and give it up or keep playing and see if you can learn something, about poker and about yourself.

GL,

Tao

Basil · #5 08-28-2005, 05:06 PM

Bah I suck.
I had K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Sorry, in Swedish it's Kn or Kj for jack.

Basil · #6 08-28-2005, 05:33 PM

*** EDITED FROM THE FIRST POST***
THIS IS THE CORRECT HAND

Let me start by saying I'm new to poker, so keep your flames to yourslef. Thanks.

I get K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 3 limpers, Hero raise , SB BB folds. All but me folds who call.

Flop is:
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets , SB re-raise
Hero calls.

Turn is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Giving me the nut flush.

Hero call, SB re-raise etc, and we cap it.

River is:

4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets, villian calls.

I'm sorry for not using bisonbison, but Expekt.com don't support it afaik.

Reason I'm asking if I played this wrong is because i've lost 200 BB over 3 days. If I flop A set, I see Kn and Q come up, giving someone a stright. If I flop a straight, someone have a flush. If I have a flush, someone have a full house (Guess what happened above?) Hell I've flopped full houses only to be beaten with four of a kind. I know these things happen, and I'm not whining. It's just that it happenes every single hand I try to play , for 3 days in a row. I can honestly say I haven't won a single hand in 200-300 hand played in a row. Over the last 3 days I've won maybe 3 hands, total.

I know I play poorly, but even the worst player gets lucky once in a while. Is this a downswing? Is downswings when NOTHING works? No matter how hard you try?

I'm really confused weather I should play poker at all. I eather suck so bad I'll never get good at it, or I'm the unluckiest guy in the world

Now please don't take this as whining because I'm losing. I don't really care that I'm losing money since I play at the nano limits. I DO care that I don't seem to get any better, but actually get worse instead. I went from $2 to $50 within 30 days playing .05/.10 and now I'm about to be back at $2 really soon.

Was the last month just beginners luck? Is this how bad I really am?

I should add I'm reading this site and SSHE alot.

*** SOrry for the confusion =/ lesson learned.

SheridanCat · #7 08-28-2005, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Let me start by saying I'm new to poker, so keep your flames to yourslef. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually a little hurt. There are almost no flames in the Beginner's Forum. The only flames we've had are when someone spams or trolls.

Anyway...

I'll snip the hand out of my reply because you played it fine. You got your money in with the best of it and lost to a full house - I assume.

[ QUOTE ]

Reason I'm asking if I played this wrong is because i've lost 200 BB over 3 days.

I know I play poorly, but even the worst player gets lucky once in a while. Is this a downswing? Is downswings when NOTHING works? No matter how hard you try?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much correct, yes. There are times when you just lose, no matter how big a favorite you are. You zig when you should have zagged, and vice versa. It's painful, but everyone will go through it at many points in their playing career. 200BBs is painful, no doubt.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm really confused weather I should play poker at all. I eather suck so bad I'll never get good at it, or I'm the unluckiest guy in the world

Was the last month just beginners luck? Is this how bad I really am?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can stand the frustration, then keep playing and keep studying. Is this really how bad you are? No, probably not. It's certainly partially related to inexperience, but there's going to be a good amount of bad luck in there too.

Are you the unluckiest guy in the world? No, I can say with certainty that you are not. You're still breathing, so you have that going for you. Lots of people got more unlucky lately. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My point is that you, me and every other poker player will have these swings. We do. There was a recent post by bholder on this forum that outlines his experience. Read that for some perspective and encouragement.

Now, keep reading and plugging away.

Good luck,

T

Basil · #8 08-28-2005, 06:53 PM

Thanks for the replies guys and sorry for my confusing first post.

Reason I even posted this was because that hand (he had AA) was just one of many many hands in a row where I had a strong hand, yet failed.
I don't want to count the times I've flopped a set only to see the board fill up with a open ended straight giving someone with J3 the pot. I know it happens, I've read others posts. But how can it happen again and again and again so many hours in a row?

I'm frustrated! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Atleast it made me stop playing for a while, and read more.

AKQJ10 · #9 08-28-2005, 08:08 PM

Ah, that makes much more sense now that we see the board paired on the river. I couldn't figure out why he'd play so aggressively with two small diamonds preflop. ;-)

You still played it fine though. While a full house is rather more likely in this scenario than a straight flush was the first way you posted it, you still want to bet the river for value. He was silly not to raise the river with the top full house (the only hand beating him is quad fours -- the SF is no longer possible right?), but you should still bet top flush in that situation. You'll often get called with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something similar.

Keep playing, moving down if you have to -- but you'll get the money in the long run if you play well.

OrianasDaad · #10 08-29-2005, 02:38 AM

Grunching the corrected HH.

I like a raise with suited broadways and position in a largish field. You are hoping to build a large pot that you have a few ways to win.

The SB check-raised on the flop. If there were two or more other cold-callers (3+ opponents total), I'm capping this flop. You are putting in 25% of the money on the flop, and your hand will come in more than 25% of the time (by the river). You have a positive pot equity situation here. If the small blind eliminated the field, then I'm 3-betting about half the time, and just calling the other half.

Turn action is confusing, but there's nothing wrong with a cap here, especially multi-way. You've got the nuts.

River is fine, as well. Your opponent might have a boat, but most of the time he doesn't. Checking behind is OK here if you think your opponent will fold, since a bet might not be for value.

[ QUOTE ]
Is downswings when NOTHING works? No matter how hard you try?

[/ QUOTE ]

No matter how hard you try.... I used to be a victim to this type of thought, especially during a downswing. The truth is, Poker is a game where your hand strength is relative. Relative to what? Relative to the strength of your opponents' hand. I wouldn't be surprised if during this chicken fart of a sample size you lost more money with hands like bottom two pair, top-pair-decent-kicker, and busted straights and flushes. You are probably trying too hard to win the pots you are in, without judging the relative strength of your hand.

Learning to read hands (for the vast majority of us, myself included) takes work, work, and more work - plus a lot of study. Here's how I learned:

- One table only.
- Take a note on someone after every showdown.
- No distractions, watch the game intently.
- Lots of offline study with PT.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really confused weather I should play poker at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an extremely valid question, and one that every single poker player should ask themselves at least once. Be honest with yourself - self-delusion is the #1 stumbling block for would-be poker players (and humanity in general).