KK hand

ChipsAhoya · #1 08-16-2005, 08:40 PM

Hey all,

My friend made the final table of a 40-person tourney yesterday and I'm just wondering what he should have done here...

Top 5 paid, 6 left. Hero has 10k in 4th place, 1-3rd places all barely have him covered at 14k-11k and there are 2 really short stacks...

A short stack called the $400 BB, a stack bigger than my friend makes it 1200 or so... My friend pushes KK w/ 10k, both opponents call.

I didn't fault him for going all in, but he did have about 25 BB left... shouldn't he make it something like 3-5k here instead of pushing?

Thanks,
ChipsAhoya

ChipsAhoya · #2 08-17-2005, 01:26 AM

bump...?

TomHimself · #3 08-17-2005, 01:32 AM

Standard.

#4 08-17-2005, 05:59 AM

Shortstack calling, and not pushing? He had AA and wanted people to call or what?

But I'd push this as well, in hope of isolating the small stack, and stealing some chips from the deep stack.

runout_mick · #5 08-17-2005, 06:54 AM

Your friend played it correctly, he's either getting the larger stack to call with a worse hand, or creating dead money. Both are very good results.

If the larger stack had AA, well, welcome to poker...

37offsuit · #6 08-17-2005, 08:47 AM

What do you suggest your friend does with the hand after investing 3-5K (1/3 - 1/2 his stack) if he gets reraised preflop? What about if the flop contains an Ace? Dump it to a reraise or a bet on the flop? What if the flop contains an Ace and it's checked to him? Push then? I guess I'm not following what other option your friend has? I guess if he is more concerned with waiting out the small stacks to move up places he could fold, or call and then try to play a small pot post flop if an Ace doesn't come...but I and probably most here think that's a shameful way to play poker.

Dave D · #7 08-17-2005, 09:55 AM

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Standard.

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ChipsAhoya · #8 08-17-2005, 08:08 PM

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What do you suggest your friend does with the hand after investing 3-5K (1/3 - 1/2 his stack) if he gets reraised preflop? What about if the flop contains an Ace? Dump it to a reraise or a bet on the flop? What if the flop contains an Ace and it's checked to him? Push then? I guess I'm not following what other option your friend has?

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I guess I would have popped it to that much, called a re-raise all-in preflop, pushed an aceless flop, although I'm not sure what I would have done on an A flop...

About how big do the stack sizes have to be before this wouldn't be a standard push? 50 BB? In this particular tournament, pushing probably wouldn't fold AK-AT and since my friend wasn't a short stack on the bubble, I thought not pushing preflop would try to cut down the chance he'd be busted w/out any money if the shortstack folds and the big stack calls and wins instead of getting 4th place fairly easily...

have a nice day,
ChipsAhoya

AlcateL · #9 08-17-2005, 10:13 PM

I push here all day and all night.

Think of it like this, you don't know what to do on an aceless flop, thats reason enough to push it here with the 2nd best hand in poker. Lets assume for a second your opponent did have AA.

Flop T 5 3, your friend pushes
-he's out.

Lets assume your opponent has AT.
90% of the time he folds, the times he calls you're a massive favourite to become a large chip leader and go for first place. Its great getting in the money in this 40 person tournament, but lets assume the buyin is 100 bucks, first place is worth like $1400 when 5th would be like $300.

Lets assume your opponent has QJ, you push, he folds.
if you let him see a flop and he makes a straight draw, trips or two pair you're losing all your chips.

Lets assume your opponent has a high pocket pair but not aces, like QQ/JJ/TT. You push sometimse you get called sometimes he folds, when he doesn't you're 4-1 favourite, perfect, time to take a chip lead run over the table. with about 50k chips (or so it seems) in play that'd put you in an excellent position to take first place which is where all the money is.

Then lets assume your opponent has a lower pocket pair 95% of the time he folds and you don't give him a chance to set up.

the only option is push.

I don't see raising to 3-5k as an option, why get yourself pot committed? It just doesn't make sense to me.

AlcateL · #10 08-17-2005, 10:16 PM

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About how big do the stack sizes have to be before this wouldn't be a standard push? 50 BB? In this particular tournament, pushing probably wouldn't fold AK-AT and since my friend wasn't a short stack on the bubble, I thought not pushing preflop would try to cut down the chance he'd be busted w/out any money if the shortstack folds and the big stack calls and wins instead of getting

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if its this situation in the tournament and the blinds are on 100/200 (with no antes) and the guy calls and the reraise is to 600 I'd advocate a raise to say 1500-2000, the point is that although its similar to what you were suggesting the whole point is when you're raising to 3-5k with pocket kings you're getting yourself pot committed to the hand. I still don't mind a push in this position and blinds (100/200) in some ways if you're that bothered about the bubble making the money, but you have to get it out of your head about making the money. If you want to make money playing mtt's you're looking for first.