Couple questions about Christianity

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My position is simple. Much of the hierarchy of today's Church (post Vatican II Church 1965) has been overrun by heretics and those suspected of heresy. And all the major problems it faces: lack of vocations, lack of true holiness (leading to the sex abuse scandals and what not) is a direct manifestation of this awful situation. The Catholic Church has not been in a greater crisis since the Arian heresy ca 4th Century.

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We all know what is to be done with heretics. Lets burn them. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] This is not a flame. I would not be the one to light the first match.

[BluffTHIS!]

In regards to the latin phrase I used for the header of an earlier post, ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia (where Peter {the pope} is, there is the church), Peter, you said this:

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It's a nice motto there, but unfortunately, that is not defined dogma

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And yet, if a protestant poster here asked you to prove the primacy of the bishop of Rome, you would doubtless respond with Matt. 16:18, "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.", as the scriptural and thus dogmatic basis for same.

What a tangled web you in SSPX weave. Why not just admit you are basically a protestant, albeit the most conservative one, and obsessed with "details".

[Peter666]

What you claim to be obedience, is really blind obedience. Obedience without rationality is simply idolatry.

JP II, not only in this case, but many others made statements contradicting the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Yet you would rather bow down to the authority of JP II when he contradicts Catholic doctrine, rather than the entire authority of tradition which includes all the Popes up to Him. In fact, not only did he contradict Catholic on dogma sometimes, but he would even contradict himself.

Idolatry of the Pope is Papalotry.



Yes, that is a Koran he is kissing, and NO, a Pope is not allowed to do that. It's called breaking the first commandment, and many Christians were martyred for refusing to do the same. Way to go Karol Wojtyla. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[BluffTHIS!]

JPII was one of the most theologically knowledgeable and profound popes in history. And even if you think he carried ecumenical activities too far, you cannot show that he was not 100% orthodox in his theological writings.

And since your group lacks all the marks of the true church, then opinions like the ones you express, or those of Archbishop Lefevre or Fr. Peter Scott, are nothing other than personal judgements, and not authoritative interpretations. The very basis of protestantism.

So again, just join the ranks of all the other protestant denominations and admit what you are. Just elect your own pontiff and make your defacto schism into the full blown heresy that it really is. And keep thinking that Benedict XVI is really different than JPII when he was his theological right hand man. If your group doesn't come back into the fold under him, it never will.

And all this because your founders refused to adapt to the Mass in the vernacular in a differnt form. Liturgical practices, not doctrinal/theological matters.

[RJT]

Bluff,

Sorry I got you involved here. I thought it was a simple matter of infallibility and all relative to Ecumenical Councils and the like. Hadn’t realized until these last few days, exactly where Pete was coming from. Got it now.

I think I’ll pass on the discussion. But, I will monitor it if he continues with his calumnies.

RJT

[vulturesrow]

JPII was a highly regarded theologian long before he was named Pope. The thought of him making a statement contrary to doctrine is laughable at best.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
What you claim to be obedience, is really blind obedience. Obedience without rationality is simply idolatry.

JP II, not only in this case, but many others made statements contradicting the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Yet you would rather bow down to the authority of JP II when he contradicts Catholic doctrine, rather than the entire authority of tradition which includes all the Popes up to Him. In fact, not only did he contradict Catholic on dogma sometimes, but he would even contradict himself.

Idolatry of the Pope is Papalotry.



Yes, that is a Koran he is kissing, and NO, a Pope is not allowed to do that. It's called breaking the first commandment, and many Christians were martyred for refusing to do the same. Way to go Karol Wojtyla. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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I think JPII was simply acknowledging that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. Though the Catholic and Muslim ideas of God certainly have their distance, it is still the same "reality."

Take it FWIW, and I don't know how much credibility you lend to them, but the Blessed Mother revealed to the children at Medjugorje that the holiest woman in the villiage was an old Muslim lady...apparently her simple life and devotion to daily prayer was very pleasing to God.

[Peter666]

"JPII was a highly regarded theologian long before he was named Pope. The thought of him making a statement contrary to doctrine is laughable at best."

No, he received a doctorate in Phenomenology. His writings as theologian are beyond suspect. He would have been condemned in Pope Pius XII's time without doubt. He did not come into prominence until after this.

To BluffTHIS: why bring the SSPX into the discussion? Who cares about them, you don't need them to show the dubiousness of JPII, he does that well enough himself. But since you brought it up, let us see what JP II has to say regarding development of doctrine in Ecclesia Dei (in which he is quoting Vatican II) "It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience" Now counter this with what St. Pius X had to say in his condemnation of the Modernists in Pascendi:

"In the religious sense one must recognize a kind of intuition of the heart which puts man in immediate contact with the reality of God, and infuses such a persuasion of God's existence and His action both within and without man as far to exceed any scientific conviction. They assert, therefore, the existence of a real experience, and one of a kind that surpasses all rational experience. If this experience is denied by some, like the Rationalists, they say that this arises from the fact that such persons are unwilling to put themselves in the moral state necessary to produce it. It is this experience which makes the person who acquires it to be properly and truly a believer."

No wonder JP II refused to take the oath against modernism in his coronation.

Finally to RJT: What calumny? I could not make this stuff up if I wanted too. I leave you with a pic of JP II at mass with a topless woman reading the Epistle. The inculturation of ethnicity at mass is bad enough, but are the breasts really necessary to compound the scandal?

[BluffTHIS!]

De Papa JPII, argumentum tuum et argumentum ad hominem et argumentum ad ignorantiam est.

[Peter666]

Oh, for God's sake, don't get me started on Medjugorje [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I can understand if someone presented a book to him and he kissed it by accident or what not, but this incident took place in Iraq on his papal visit and was planned from the get go. I am not sure if you are aware of the theological problem of modern "Ecumenism", but this falls under that category. The shocking thing is that the Vicar of Christ would do it. It is a scandal of the highest magnitude. The worst one though was the Prayer Meeting at Asissi with the different religions of the world in 1988.

There are so many things I can say into about the theological problems, but I don't want to shock the Catholics and give them heart attacks all in one night. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]