Cheating: looking for links to old discussions

I did a search for discussions of various forms of potential cheating? I found only 9 posts. Is the topic taboo or is it just so irrelevant that its not discussed. I am not talking about the Party is Rigged type of discussions. I wanted to view topics regarding collusion/trojans etc. or any general discussions on the topic by 2+2ers.

[Irieguy]

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I did a search for discussions of various forms of potential cheating? I found only 9 posts. Is the topic taboo or is it just so irrelevant that its not discussed. I am not talking about the Party is Rigged type of discussions. I wanted to view topics regarding collusion/trojans etc. or any general discussions on the topic by 2+2ers.

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Yeah, there should probably be more discussion about this as I'm sure collusion is happening at the higher levels.

The best discussion on this forum (unfortunately, I couldn't find it to link to it) was when Daliman said he'd let ZeeJustin play 9 of the 10 seats in a SNG while Daliman played only one. Daliman said ZJ could look at all 18 hole cards and collude in any way he liked and it wouldn't make a difference... Daliman would still win money. Classic thread.

I think that most 2+2ers fall into one of three categories with regard to collusion:

1. They already collude a little bit (or more) and don't want to talk about it.

2. They hope that nobody is colluding to a meaningful extent and prefer the ostrich approach with regard to the topic.

3. They figure that all that matters is whether the game is beatable, which bears itself out in their results over significant numbers of hours/games/hands. In other words, it doesn't matter if people are colluding if they can still win, and it doesn't matter if the games are 100% square if they can't beat them.

I fall into category 3 and imagine that a large number of regular players/2+2ers do also.

Irieguy

[valenzuela]

SNGs due to their structure are quite "cheatable", specially if the colluders manage to sit next to each other. But Im not really worried since Im sure the cheaters suck and cant collude succesfully anyway.

So Im number 3( although it would suck if a cheating scandal came out to the public)

Thanks all. Great links and very valid points regarding the profitability of collusion. I also doubt that it would be viable to stay under the radar for any great length of time. I like to make myself believe that well co-ordinated collusion/cheating would be done at higher stakes ring games. But I do like to review others experiences and/or opinions from time to time.

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SNGs due to their structure are quite "cheatable", specially if the colluders manage to sit next to each other.

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I'm watching 2 colluders now sitting next to each other at a $50 STT on Party. They are also sitting next to each other on 2 step tournaments.

I was playing some step tournaments the other night and they were at my table doing some barefaced colluding stuff. When i did a search for them I seen that they were 3 tabling together. I added them to buddies and everytime I search they are 3 tabling together.

I've reported it to Party so I'll see what they say but it's obvious. I've got a couple of HH's of just an hour ago where one checked down a flopped full house to the end when last to act when his buddy was in the pot with him and it was 3 handed. And another where one raised, his short stacked friend reraised then he called. The shortstacked went all in for some shady amount and the other folded so both were healthy again.

There are around 80 $50 STT's running when they play but they always seem to hit the same table and always seats 3 & 4. Strange eh?

And there they go again. Another $50 STT and they just happen to hit the same table. Oh, and they both joined another Mini Step 3. They've been hammering the steps together tonight.

I wanted to play some steps but they've hogged it all night.

Anyone reading this. Go to $50 STT Table 67017, add the two Jeff's to your buddies. Yes, they even have the same name.

And just check your buddies every hour or so to see how colluding works.

I would also be in category 3. I doubt that anyone is colluding seriously in any SnGs $215 and below. The amount of effort it would take to collude, especially with more than one other person, would probably limit the amount of tables you could play to 1 or 2. So any good players could make more money just by playing more tables than they could by colluding. Colluding also takes up table spots that could otherwise be fish. And if the bad players want to collude, bring it on, because I doubt they would gain any substantial advantage from it. I'm sure some people do it occasionally on a small scale. When I first started playing my friends and I did collude on some $5 SnGs, but I doubt we really obtained any benefit from it. If we had that idea, others probably did too.

[roundest]

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I would also be in category 3. I doubt that anyone is colluding seriously in any SnGs $215 and below. The amount of effort it would take to collude, especially with more than one other person, would probably limit the amount of tables you could play to 1 or 2. So any good players could make more money just by playing more tables than they could by colluding. Colluding also takes up table spots that could otherwise be fish. And if the bad players want to collude, bring it on, because I doubt they would gain any substantial advantage from it. I'm sure some people do it occasionally on a small scale.

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This is more or less exactly what I was going to say. I can see colluding in the step 5's as being worthwhile. $215s and below would just be way too much work for any winning player. I imagine it would definitely mean less $$$/hr.

There are structures outside of Pstars and PP where colluders could probably make a tidy profit. Pacific's 5-man sng's where top 3 places pay come to mind. I believe they have sng's up to 1k buyin in this format.

I'm in category 3 as well.

[citanul]

i know that people are colluding at many levels. i believe that many of them are so bad that they do so in a poor fashion. many good players aren't smart enough to figure out what a good way of cheating would be. etc, etc. at the highest buyin tournaments, i believe cheating is rampant and it makes me incredibly unlikely to play at all.

c