allowing players to count... have any casinos triied this?

[bholdr]

I'm wondering if any casinos have offered BJ with some really bad rules (like 6-5 or something like that) and allowed the players to count and vary their bets as much as they want (within a certian range, say, $10-$50). I'd think that they could come up with some rule adjustments that would make such a game break-even against a perfect counter, and would therefore still be profitable for the casino- the idea being that it adds an extra-addictive skill element to the game and would stimulate action, especially from people intrested in honing their counting skills and those that think they know how to count effectivly. I'd assume it's be a huge moneymaker, i know I'd play it, since when i'm in a B&M i'm there to lose anyway and i might as well do it at a game that gives the illusion of beatability.

anyone thought of this? would you play? would it make money? (if so, the idea is MINE! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

[The Goober]

I don't get it - how would you advertise this game? Would you put up a sign that said "Counting allowed on this table - spread your bets as much as you like!" Won't that be off-putting to recreationaly gamblers, since it reinforces the idea that they are being watched closely on all the other tables?

Also, counting isn't easy, and I think pretty much all players who actually learn to count would also know bad rules when they see it. So, the only people who are likely to do this are people that want to practice counting and don't mind taking a small loss. It seems like those players, though, aren't likely to get caught counting on a normal table since they would be playing such low stakes. Also, if you want to practice counting but not get backed off, can't you just trade EV for security by limiting the bet spread?

Still, though, I think you might be onto something. What you should do is use an automatic shuffler and have a computer in the table that counts for you, with the results showing on a display somewhere. As long as the rules are sufficiently bad, the house would probably gets tons of action when the count is good and still make a profit. Plus you'd probably get lots of drunk gamblers who think they are getting an edge, but don't actually adjust their strategy properly to the count (or don't even know BS to begin with).

And if this idea makes money, I'll split it 50-50 with you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Bulbarainey]

isnt this pretty much California Blackjack? The house has no stake in the game by law and its all the corporation v. the players, so whos gonna stop u? However, the game is crippled because you have to pay a fee per hand ($1/hand up to $100, some 50c up to 50$) and BJ's pay 1:1 (unless suited or 2 A's at some of the casinos)...

[SheetWise]

Back in the late 70's the Castaways club on the Vegas strip put in a table called the "Monster Table". As I recall it was 8 decks and had seating for about 15 players. They invited all counters to play (that was back in the days of Bill Friedman). We played the single table as a team with one player simply counting the number of cards, another simply counting tens, another Aces, another 5's -- we got a perfect true count, perfect insurance decisions, etc. We ran one plus minus count for betting correlation and another for strategic efficiency -- we all spread 2-500 and bet by consensus. We beat the crap out of it. The table was removed.

[ QUOTE ]
What you should do is use an automatic shuffler and have a computer in the table that counts for you, with the results showing on a display somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't everyone just leave when the count got bad? Other than that, great idea for the casinos.

[MCS]

If I were planning to count for money later, I wouldn't play here, because I would assume the casino is watching this table closely and noting who is good at counting. So it just seems like an easy way to get noticed and catalogued.

[Cyrus]

THE CAT AND MOUSE GAME

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
THE CAT AND MOUSE GAME

[/ QUOTE ]

Good article Cyrus.

craig

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
THE CAT AND MOUSE GAME

[/ QUOTE ]

Good article Cyrus.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

He mentions there the point I always believed: the casinos lose so many hands per hour in wasted shuffling time, they lose more money than if they went with good pen and dealt those extra 20 hands per hour. They could still back off big-spread counters if they wanted to. The revenue made from rookie counters' mistakes alone would be good.

[cadillac1234]

Cache Creek in Northern CA is offering single deck BJ with 6-5 payoff and DD 10,11 only so basically their inviting counters to play with really bad rules.