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#11
12-11-2005, 08:47 PM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
[ QUOTE ]
I dunno, I'd just push preflop. If he pushes this flop do you call? [/ QUOTE ] This is what microbet and I were talking about. I believe it is better to wait until the flop, while he believes I should be pushing preflop. Calling on the flop is an issue I talked briefly about with apathy, and is another relevant point to this hand. These were the things I was hoping would get discussed. 
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#12
12-12-2005, 08:36 AM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (3 handed) converter SB (t2850) Hero (t5625) Button (t1525) Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1525 (All-In)</font>, SB calls t1375, Hero calls t1225. Flop: (t4575) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t4100 (All-In)</font>, These guys are normal mediocre players. Pushing a decent amount, but less than they should, calling a little more than they should. I was pushing most flops. [/ QUOTE ] personally, i fold PF. but what do i know, i only play the 30s! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] assuming you are playing it, i think you played it correctly. i put SB on overs (at the very least). i suppose he could have AX, where X <= 6. but i dont think that's too likely, given my read on his calling range. so if i pushed, he would call (having invested too much already) and get full value of his hand by seeing it to the river. by calling, you can get away from the hand if the flop was too scary (AKQ, perhaps). also, if SB checked on a favorable flop like this one, we should be able to get him to fold by pushing. fwiw, some players like to try and check it down, even with a good hand like TPTK. but i'm not sure how this rare occasion affects our decision to push or not... jc
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#13
12-12-2005, 09:47 AM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
Right, I like hand played as was...SB's likely overcards to your 66, and we dont want him seeing all 5 board cards.
If you push p/f, he wont fold, so then he probably races you. But on raggy flops, you are given some FE. Only problem is when board is high cards, you have to check it down. Scared to death, scared to look, BL'
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#14
12-12-2005, 12:55 PM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
i like this line. if SB pushes, i think you have to call. you're in the ballpark of having odds to call even if one has a bigger pair (backdoor outs + 6's) and there's some chance you're ahead.
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#15
12-12-2005, 02:05 PM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
[ QUOTE ]
i like this line. if SB pushes, i think you have to call. you're in the ballpark of having odds to call even if one has a bigger pair (backdoor outs + 6's) and there's some chance you're ahead. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, since this thread resurfaced I'll outline my thought process briefly. Preflop: I'm not folding, I probably have the best hand and the chips to do something about it. Big Limpin's post is nice and concise and does an excellent job of referencing Mobb Deep... the three most important things in posting. IMO, which differed from Microbet's, he has a reasonable hand or else he wouldn't stick his neck out there, and while he may not be thrilled, he has to call if I push pf. The overlay he is getting is ridiculous. I envision him grunting in front of his computer, I never see him folding. We don't want him seeing five cards. Three will have to do. Now this guy is straight-forward so we know he wants to check this down. Dude wants second. Now if he checks it to me on a flop like this the risk / reward to pushing is too great not to in my opinion. He's likely folding overs because he's scared of busting in third. He also has to give me credit for a hand because it's a dry side pot so I'm not bluffing. He's too weak to call with overs in my opinion. Now if he leads into me for all his chips on the flop I think I strongly have to consider folding. Like I said, dude wants second, why would he push if he doesn't have me crushed. If he was good or tricky this becomes more complicated, but this guy isn't pulling anything funky. If he was good he would've pushed pf. If he pushes I think I have 2 outs. I would reluctantly fold. I think it's worth noting I think he open pushes here like never. And yes, sometimes he check calls all-in and I'm crushed. C'est la vie, it wasn't that many more chips anyways.
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#16
12-12-2005, 02:36 PM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
Definitely push. Irrelevant to button's cards, if you have the SB beat but he has cards that can promote his hand past yours, you should push.
Read the level 8 hand here at the end And the results are here
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#17
12-12-2005, 02:42 PM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
Pre or post?
This isn't totally a question about what to do on the flop; although I definitely did want input on this. I think a push is clearly the right play; it's more about how I get there and what I do if the dude pushes.
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#18
12-12-2005, 02:56 PM
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Re: $109\'s... Son, you\'re shook, ain\'t no such thing as halfway crooks
[ QUOTE ]
Pre or post? This isn't totally a question about what to do on the flop; although I definitely did want input on this. I think a push is clearly the right play; it's more about how I get there and what I do if the dude pushes. [/ QUOTE ] With the button already allin, I think the SB has to call a repush preflop. And you definitely shouldn't fold unless the SB is unusually tight.
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