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#21
11-02-2005, 10:39 AM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What hands make you "way behind"? AA, KK, AK, QQ...that's it. [/ QUOTE ] And what range would you put a tight $55er on? These hands make up a large portion of such a range. [/ QUOTE ] Nobody every said UTG+1 was tight. In fact he's already won a 400 chip pot, do we know what he did it with? [/ QUOTE ] No, sorry. Starting to 8-table, still working on picking up reads. Obviously AQ is a good hand and there are obvious arguments for calling (i.e. it's good to play good hands), but here is what I don't like: - it's offsuit - I'm not guaranteed to see a flop if it's raised behind me - while I have position on him, I won't on anyone else that comes in - it's going to be expensive to decipher c-bets from value bets from dominating hands (e.g. if he leads out an A or Q high flop, it's going to get expensive to define his hand) - he's utg+1 and his range is tight - if we both miss, he takes it down more often than I do because of betting inertia To me it's looking like, if I hit I don't know where I am and it's expensive to find out, and if I don't I often lose the pot. But hey, obviously I'm not totally sure of what to do or else I wouldn't have posted this. 
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#22
11-02-2005, 10:49 AM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
Trust me, a guy calling a raise is much scarier to the raiser (excluding AA) than you give him credit for. He has no idea what you have either, and will probably be thinking the same as you (assuming he's not a donk).
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#23
11-02-2005, 10:52 AM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
[ QUOTE ]
He has no idea what you have either, and will probably be thinking the same as you (assuming he's not a donk). [/ QUOTE ] This is something a lot of people fail to realize. We are just as capable out outplaying our opponents as they are of outplaying us, and in this case we have a good (but not great) hand and position.
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#24
11-02-2005, 10:53 AM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
If I had a read that the villain was solid or tight, I would be apt to lay this down. If I had played a lot of games with her, I should have some idea here. Even if you've got 8 tables open, you have time to open the hand history if you're not sure how she got those chips.
If I just assumed it was an average 55er I would call here, and like others here, I'd likely lay down AJ. It's close, a fold isn't terrible, but you might be passing on some EV v. an average villain.
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#25
11-02-2005, 11:46 AM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
[ QUOTE ]
Trust me, a guy calling a raise is much scarier to the raiser (excluding AA) than you give him credit for. He has no idea what you have either, and will probably be thinking the same as you (assuming he's not a donk). [/ QUOTE ] This is a very good point.
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#27
11-02-2005, 12:26 PM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
If you assume raiser isn't a donk then shouldn't you also assume that he has KK+ or AK as you earlier said he "should" have to raise 75 in that spot?
You can't have it both ways - that is to say you can't say hey it's a 55 so the raiser could have any kind of donkish hand and then from the other side of your mouth say that he will "probably be thinking the same as you". Would be nice though if your could have your cake and eat it too.
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#28
11-02-2005, 12:29 PM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I wouldn't raise to 75 here with QQ. [/ QUOTE ] No, I'm just saying. And again, you are definitely tighter than the average $55er. What would you do with QQ? [/ QUOTE ] Raise to 65 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] ROFLMAO
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#29
11-02-2005, 12:32 PM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
[ QUOTE ]
This is something a lot of people fail to realize. We are just as capable out outplaying our opponents as they are of outplaying us, and in this case we have a good (but not great) hand and position. [/ QUOTE ] Wow. I only came back into this thread to see why it wasn't dead yet and I see respected posters defending the call. The typical situation is flop xxx and a 2/3 to full pot bet by villain. How do you plan to "outplay" him now? Call again? I call raises with AQ on early levels sometimes, but only when I'm pretty sure they don't represent a good hand (e.g. minraises), or if the raiser is in late position, or with a big positional advantage. This kind of large size raise in early position is right out, especially with a bunch of guys still to act behind me.
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#30
11-02-2005, 12:40 PM
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Re: $55\'s... I don\'t see any good coming from this
I fold here. Not saying that calling is flat out wrong but it is quite risky.
I personally like to keep it simple when multitabling which is a big part of why I fold. Often the raiser will have AA, KK, QQ or AK which could lead to me losing a big pot, maybe my stack. Even if the raiser has a lesser hand I don't know how often I could hope to win a big pot myself to make up for the losses. I just can't see realistically winning a big pot that often from what, AJ, AT? I just don't see it. Call me weak tight if you like but I'm quite comfortable with folding here.
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