How long does it take to get good at poker?

[whittiphil]

I'm completely serious with this question. I've been playing quite a lot for the past 4 months, I've read Ciaffone's book, HOH1 and 2, some limit holdem books and am half way through TOP. I read lots of poker blogs, and this forum, and Pokertracker tells me I've played 65k hands total at various limits.

This seems like a shitload of study + practice, and I'm not that good. I'm 10ptbb/100 at 25nl after 20k hands, and I get destroyed when I move up. I don't understand this.

I read in the Alvarez book "The Biggest Game in Town" that pro players in vegas can look to log 80k hands in a year. I've almost done that in ~4 months, shouldn't I be way better than I am? Shouldn't I be able to destroy NL100 by now?

So I'm asking more experienced players and posters, people like jkkk, TWP, xorbie, kongtotte et al.. how long did it take you to get to NL100+? Am I slow?

Everyone seems to think that poker is a sweet way to earn money, and I think it is once you get good, but the more I play the worse I realise I am. I have so much to learn, and I want to learn as quick as possible.

This isn't a cockiness thing, I just am consistently overwhelmed by the skill needed for poker. You accumulate your edges, +1% here, +15% there, but then the one donkey call or bluff you make in a day can ruin all that edge.

What do others think? Am I right? Am I just experiencing a 3 week long downswing (must be contributing to my whininess)? Am I just being a little bitch?

[Marlow]

1) I played for about 2 and 1/2 years before I was any good. (before internet explosion)

2) Only about 8% of all players make money at all.

3) As for moving up, you might need to take a look at any psychological problems you have with going to the next level. I haven't ever played .25-.5 or .5-1, but I'm guessing it's not a massive step up in competition. These psych problems dog every player.

4) Good luck.

Marlow

[Mercman572]

i've been playing/studying for about 8 months now before i was confident playing in 100NL. over how long of a time period are you getting "killed." you might just be unlucky and hitting downswings when you try

[GrunchCan]

A long time. If you are going along on a path that you think will deliver you to your poker destination, you'll never get there.

I've played several times the number of hands you've played, read many more books, and studied much longer, and I'm learning something new every time I play.

You're doing fine. Just keep doing that. And try to remember why you play at all. It's not in order to improve.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
you might just be unlucky and hitting downswings when you try

[/ QUOTE ]

yes if you really can't beat nl200 on down it's because the amounts are making you play worse, assuming you (OP) really are making 10BB/100 at nl25 long term.

[whittiphil]

I guess I play for three reasons

1) Fun

2) To learn a skill (I like learning things)

3) Money

It's not fun when you're not making money (seriously), so I just hope I'm learning

[Skuzzy]

There are a shitload of intangibles learned through playing that can be really hard to conceptualise. Think about the times you 'knew' that calling the pot bet with a flush draw was dumb but somehow you put your money in anyway. Or the times you 'knew' that your bad session was just variance and randomness at work but still you decided to call that raise with AJo. Think about how easy it is to get emotionally involved in what should clearly be emotionless decisions. Poker isn't really a game that is won or lost based on what you know, it's a game that's won or lost based on what you DO!!!!

It takes a long time to learn how to do the things you know you should do regardless of how you feel, or how your running, or what happened last time etc.

in the words of a great sage "...do or do not. There is no try." Trying to play poker will cost you money.

[Allinlife]

improve your hand reading skills.

learn what the betting patterns mean.

and play your hand in a way that maximizes win against worse hands while minimizing loss to better hands.

post more [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[afreeman]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing quite a lot for the past 4 months...I'm 10ptbb/100 at 25nl after 20k hands, and I get destroyed when I move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, you're doing pretty well by most standards, better than "typical" probably.

Second, 20k hands works out to about 5k hands a month, which means you're probably running at least 2-3 tables at once. Consider running just one table at those higher limits as you get your feet wet. Specifically focus more on understanding what is going on at the table.

Third, since you have some data, its time to scour your PT database for leaks. Classify hands into groups and then look for systematic errors with each type of hand.

Fourth, in conjunction with your hands study, re-reread ToP, HoH and friends. Improvement in poker (at least for me) has been an interative process of playing, reading, evaluating my played hands, and then more playing.

If your game is anything like mine, you'll beat your head on the wall for a while with this process until something clicks and then it will all snap into focus at once.

[IbrakeFORrivers]

THe worst thing i do, is i'll do really really really really good. Call down right spots, bet right times, even get lucky every now and then. Double up my bankroll. Then I move up quickly. Don't do that.

And it takes forever to get good. I'm ok. Right now, I'm in a bad streak. Well, a break-even streak. I'm stuck at the same exact level. I'll win $10 and lose $8. Win $2 then immediately next session lose $3.

I get cocky, have a good run, then am steamrolled or humbled by my seeming inability to catch a card etc.

Here's how some pros view it. It's like bodybuilding. You'll make massive gains at first. BUt then, after those massive gains haev been achieved, you start to need to focus on the fine-point areas. Muscle definition, water balance, etc. In other words, it's not fun b/c your gains aren't that big, and the occasional leak, REALLY MEANS SOMETHING over the long - run. Even if you play badly enough in one hand to lose 10 cents. That 10 cents DOES ADD up...

it becomes detail oriented.

You gotta have fun. I gave up trying to make poker a career. It's like cooks who cook 24/7. COoking at home becomes boring if they cook too much.