Getting (slightly) creative at NL50 6max

[whittiphil]

Hey guys, I've just started the 50s, I play quite tight, but I thought I might try some different stuff. Fimbulwinter referred to the move below in a post once, what do you think?

I wouldn't normally do it but the guys stats seemed right.

Villain is 29/10/4.5


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

BB ($50.53)
UTG ($51.67)
MP ($166.04)
Hero ($47.45)
Button ($66.55)
SB ($44.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($7.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $4</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($15.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $10</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: $25.75

You prefer this move or a raise on the flop? or a fold?

[Spaded]

Did he congradulate you on your "ace high straight"?

[Malachii]

Hey whittiphil,

I play the same game and do a lot of the same stuff. IMO, this game is so weak/tight that preflop stealing from LP is mandatory.

A few things:

1.) I would make it 3$ to go preflop, not $2.5... it's nit picking, yes, but I think that does give you some extra folding equity.

2.) I have lost a lot of money trying to master these so called steals... specifically, it's a +EV play, but only if you don't respond overzealously when somebody says they have something. You don't invest a lot of money trying to bluff them. If I raise with a suspect hand preflop, flop nothing, and somebody leads into me, I'm going to fold. I'm not going to play a big pot with nothing trying to bluff them, that's how this move turns into a -EV one.

3.) Plays like this are important because you want to take away your opponents implied odds. Not only will I make plays like this from the button, I'm also raising suited connectors in EP so that opposing players can't show a long term profit calling my EP raises with small pocket pairs. The trick is doing it with the proper frequency.

So in summary, good idea. I fold the flop. There's really an art to this preflop stealing, but I think what it comes down to is you either want to pick it up preflop or lose as little as possible when somebody catches something. The idea is that if someone calls your preflop raise and flops a set, they get no action at all.

[whittiphil]

[ QUOTE ]
3.) Plays like this are important because you want to take away your opponents implied odds. Not only will I make plays like this from the button, I'm also raising suited connectors in EP so that opposing players can't show a long term profit calling my EP raises with small pocket pairs. The trick is doing it with the proper frequency.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand... aren't you the one with the implied odds? I understand you take the implied odds from small pairs, (although I find that most people will call $3 with pairs down to 4s, and that includes me).. but you take away your own implied odds when you raise preflop with a drawing hand - implied odds are higher when you have more of your and your opponents stack left to win when you do hit your hand.

But you're absolutely right, I intended this as a blind steal, and just saw an oppurtunity when an aggressive player underbet the flop. He folded on the turn, but it felt like too big a pot to bluff (although that could be cos I'm used to NL25).

Thanks for thoughts

[Riposte]

Hmm, I thought this sort of thing was standard. Am I pissing away money by doing this sort of thing?

If there is just one limper, I raise every hand I play, which is any connector (offsuit or suited), any semi-connector, any face cards, Axs, Kxs, AA-55.

I do it every single time. With no limpers I do it too. My PFR is like 11-12%.

So, only raise with these speculative drawing hands if there is a chance everyone will fold?

Check out this post:
Fimbulwinter talking about how to raise PFR

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand... aren't you the one with the implied odds?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not exactly. Basically, you're randomizing your play so that opponents can't profitably call with small pairs and prey on your overpairs/big slick. So in a very long term sense you're taking away their implied odds by making plays like this a certain percentage of the time.

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
If there is just one limper, I raise every hand I play, which is any connector (offsuit or suited), any semi-connector, any face cards, Axs, Kxs, AA-55.

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting idea... I'll have to try this.

[whittiphil]

[ QUOTE ]
Not exactly. Basically, you're randomizing your play so that opponents can't profitably call with small pairs and prey on your overpairs/big slick. So in a very long term sense you're taking away their implied odds by making plays like this a certain percentage of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

I really like this idea. I think it would be much more effective at higher limits, but I think it has a place at NL50.