Too weak tight, yes?

[A_C_Slater]

Okay, I'll relent.

I'll give up my mastubatory FPS check/raising fantasies. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that I did say I would bet here, but it would be on auto-pilot. But it seems like the pot is big enough that they have odds to call with bottom pair here. There are four of the call happy bastards in there. I don't see how you can say the board isn't threatening. Any overcard or heart is a threat on the turn. How big does the pot have to be to try for a check/raise here?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are 6 overcard "outs" at most that you can be concerned about. No reasonable draws. The fact that Button isn't an autobettor (you're really hoping he is) and the fact that you can't checkraise an EP bet for the same aims, and the fact that all of these people "like to call" all diminish the likelihood of your checkraise attempt working often enough. Keep in mind you're still offering 6.5:1 on a flop checkraise, which won't deter most 5-outers, which only need 8.2:1 to make the call profitable.

If you know the Button will autobet incredibly frequently, it's a closer decision, but I prefer a bet here for reasons of simplicity. You've got too much of a parlay here for a checkraise to really be necessary.

Rob

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good luck giving 5 outers infinite odds.

[/ QUOTE ]


Maybe.

But if they call are they making a mistake?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends. They're getting 6.5:1 on a checkraise with relatively little threat of a 3-bet, so in general I'd say they've got well enough implieds to make the call. Once one person coldcalls (and they usually will given this field), no one is making a mistake.

Rob

[A_C_Slater]

I anticipated this post and that's why I resigned my argument in advance. Although I disagree with the "no reasonable draws" part when there's 2 hearts out there and you don't have one.

[Student Caine]

[ QUOTE ]
There are 6 overcard "outs" at most that you can be concerned about. No reasonable draws...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you disregard the two hearts as a "reasonable draw"? That is a serious question, I play way too weak-tight and every time I have a pair and see two of a suit on the board I become very, very nervous - in fact, if the third suited card hits the turn I will usually just check and call to the river. Am I overevaluating the potential that someone is drawing to a flush?

Thanks.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are 6 overcard "outs" at most that you can be concerned about. No reasonable draws...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you disregard the two hearts as a "reasonable draw"? That is a serious question, I play way too weak-tight and every time I have a pair and see two of a suit on the board I become very, very nervous - in fact, if the third suited card hits the turn I will usually just check and call to the river. Am I overevaluating the potential that someone is drawing to a flush?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disregard the flush at all. The thing about flush draws is that there is nothing you can do, short of disconnecting their computers from the internet, to get them to fold. Checkraising doesn't really do anything against them, and the notion of making them pay "more" on the flop is ludicrous at best.

Rob

[Student Caine]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't disregard the flush at all. The thing about flush draws is that there is nothing you can do, short of disconnecting their computers from the internet, to get them to fold. Checkraising doesn't really do anything against them, and the notion of making them pay "more" on the flop is ludicrous at best.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. I understand what you are saying and please don't think I was trying to attack your statement, because noone is (or should be) dropping the flush draw here. I was just trying to gauge whether or not I was too paranoid about flushes in general when a two flush is showing.

Thanks again. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are 6 overcard "outs" at most that you can be concerned about. No reasonable draws...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you disregard the two hearts as a "reasonable draw"? That is a serious question, I play way too weak-tight and every time I have a pair and see two of a suit on the board I become very, very nervous - in fact, if the third suited card hits the turn I will usually just check and call to the river. Am I overevaluating the potential that someone is drawing to a flush?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disregard the flush at all. The thing about flush draws is that there is nothing you can do, short of disconnecting their computers from the internet, to get them to fold. Checkraising doesn't really do anything against them, and the notion of making them pay "more" on the flop is ludicrous at best.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Disconnecting their computers?

I was under the impression that this is a live hand. Which is why I think the tendency for the button to bet is increased. Them live players CAN"T STAND not betting when it's checked to them last to act.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are 6 overcard "outs" at most that you can be concerned about. No reasonable draws...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you disregard the two hearts as a "reasonable draw"? That is a serious question, I play way too weak-tight and every time I have a pair and see two of a suit on the board I become very, very nervous - in fact, if the third suited card hits the turn I will usually just check and call to the river. Am I overevaluating the potential that someone is drawing to a flush?

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disregard the flush at all. The thing about flush draws is that there is nothing you can do, short of disconnecting their computers from the internet, to get them to fold. Checkraising doesn't really do anything against them, and the notion of making them pay "more" on the flop is ludicrous at best.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Disconnecting their computers?

I was under the impression that this is a live hand. Which is why I think the tendency for the button to bet is increased. Them live players CAN"T STAND not betting when it's checked to them last to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found that the exact opposite is true, but my live play experience is limited. Online games tend to be more aggressive, especially in autobet-when-checked-to situations.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
should I have tried a check raise on the flop?


[/ QUOTE ]
No.