how would you play this flop - flush draw, top pair

Tom Martell · #1 02-08-2005, 01:42 AM

UTG and UTG+1 are both fish, UTG+2 is loose aggressive, SB is maniac seeing 90% flops and raising 40%. BB is rock.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

I plan on check raising if I get a bet close to me. When the bet is from the SB, i dont want to drive out everyone so I just call. Very happy with UTG+2 raises. Thoughts on my 3-bet? I think I can clearly 3-bet here for value, but I might be better off going for a check-raise on the turn.

I could also just bet out and hope I get a raise from the LAG UTG+2 or the maniac in the SB.

Turn: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (11 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Turn/river both seem simple.. I could try and get tricky and check the flush to give someone a shot to bluff it, but didn't see any reason to risk losing bets there.

Harv72b · #2 02-08-2005, 01:49 AM

Preflop: standard.

Flop: Stick with your initial plan, and check/raise the late bettor. Yes, you have a flush draw (and a backdoor straight draw, btw), but you also have TPWK, which might be the best hand right now--you want to drive out overcards and/or gutshot draws to maximize your chances of winning with or without the flush. You also want to drive out single high spades, which could turn a redraw to your J-high flush. For the above reasons, I don't like the 3-bet either, as you're only bloating the pot to make it more likely that any draws left will have odds to call the turn, as well as eliminating the chance of a turn c/r (which was the only thing you gained by just calling the initial flop bet).

Turn: The way you played it the flop, betting out is standard.

River: Must bet out regardless of what you did on prior streets.

Barklad · #3 02-08-2005, 01:54 AM

The flop 3-bet for value was good. I believe the turn bet was also needed to gauge for a possible straight catch and to not allow a free card to a possible straight on the river. You played it well.

Nick C · #4 02-08-2005, 02:24 AM

This is one of those hands where (on the flop) your made hand is weak and vulnerable, but your draw is huge. I'm often not sure whether I should be more concerned with building the pot or protecting my hand in such spots.

Still, the relative small size of the pot at the outset makes me want to build the pot, as I figure my equity is huge. Not knowing for certain where the bet will come from, and wanting to build the pot, I think I'd just lead (especially since I think you meant to say that Button is a maniac, and while raising a bet from him if he's the first to get one in would protect your made hand, I think I'd rather go for a big pot, by betting, letting others call, and then hoping for a raise from Button that I can 3-bet -- which actually might then drive some people out, in this now bigger pot).

Once you check, I can see just calling Button. Like I said, I think I do want to build this pot, with my huge flush/trips/two-pair draw. I might checkraise instead, though. I'm not sure what's best, and part of the reason I would've led would be to avoid this situation. Anyway, you called, and the flop checkraise from UTG+2 would concern me more if he weren't a LAG, since it could indicate a set or two-pair or even a better flush draw. I would 3-bet anyway, though, and I especially would in the actual hand, since the checkraise is coming from a LAG.

Anyway, after that, the turn and river look good to me.

Tom Martell · #5 02-08-2005, 02:46 AM

as one replier noted, i meant the button is a maniac. I am not [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Buck_65 · #6 02-08-2005, 03:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB is maniac seeing 90% flops and raising 40%. BB is rock.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB

[/ QUOTE ]

You rule.

nothumb · #7 02-08-2005, 04:06 AM

With late position players likely to raise this coordinated board, I think a bet is the best play on the flop, hoping to 3-bet or cap.

Easy for me to say, though. Either way, this 3-bet is good.

NT