Limit O8 - Folding too much? Example #2

#1 11-23-2005, 09:49 AM

Primarily a Hold'Em player, novice O8 player, and I'm trying to adjust to hand values. I've figured out that unless you scoop the implied odds and the effective odds suck at this game. But on this hand, I've got the third nut for high and am drawing to the 2nd nut for low (or the nut if I get a real lucky 3 on the board).

Was this hand played okay?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Omaha/8 (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, MP3 folds, Hero folds, Button raises, SB calls.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Button bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

jb9 · #2 11-23-2005, 11:55 AM

I think this fold is good.

The button's flop bet could have been an attempt to pick up the pot or get a turn free card (if he has a set), but when SB bets the turn that is more worrying.

Maybe I'd call down with the nut low draw if I thought SB would bet the turn with less than the nut flush, but even then folding might be best (especially with flop bettor yet to act, since he could raise and I'd be caught in the middle...).

#3 11-23-2005, 12:07 PM

Like the OP I am trying to learn O8 starting with limit and I have a question.

What would you think of folding this preflop unless the A were suited?

jthegreat · #4 11-23-2005, 12:15 PM

It's definitely playable in LP with several callers. It's not a monster by any means, but it has potential.

As Zehn · #5 11-23-2005, 12:27 PM

Don't forget the OP posted a blind and got to see the flop for free.

got0uts · #6 11-23-2005, 01:09 PM

Your flop decision should be either fold or raise (then fold to a third bet).

Why called the flop then folded the turn?

Vee Quiva · #7 11-23-2005, 01:30 PM

The turn bet by the sb is worrisome, however I think the raise might be a better option than folding.

I think you would be able to drive out some of the nut low draws. If you do and the sb has the nut flush, maybe you get lucky and back into the low on the river.

#8 11-23-2005, 01:53 PM

Got0uts wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
Why called the flop then folded the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking was:

Why would the SB bet that turn card? Looks like the liklihood of my 3rd nut flush being best just decreased by a lot.

And, now I may face a raise from the player still to act with what I now think is a weak hand.

jb9 · #9 11-23-2005, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop decision should be either fold or raise (then fold to a third bet).

Why called the flop then folded the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you call the flop because you are getting 9 to 1 odds, you are closing the action, and some cards can help you on the turn (a 3 would be best, a T wouldn't be such a bad thing, and although it ruins the low draw A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] would improve chances for high).

You fold the turn because the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] doesn't help, the SB's betting could mean he has the nut flush and was waiting to make sure the board didn't pair on the turn, the button might raise, you only have nut outs for the low, and you are only getting 6 to 1 odds (assuming you have a chance to scoop, which is assuming a lot...).

A fold on the flop wouldn't be terrible, but with so many players staying in and closing the action I would call. I don't think this hand is strong enough to raise on the flop (and I don't think rasing the flop gets anyone to fold anything you want folded since they've all called the 1st bet already).

#10 11-23-2005, 03:38 PM

Let me get this straight, I might have mis-read your post, but, you're folding the third nuts and the second nut low draw here? You have a two way hand. You cannot fold here on the turn, or the flop! Sometimes they'll show you the Ac 3c, but this is limit poker, if it was PL, I'd say yes, you can fold this hand to a huge turn bet, but dont fold a Q-high flush and the second nut low draw on this turn! If a 3 pops off on the river, you have the nut low and a high hand that only gets beat by two other high hands! Especially in a low-limit O8B game, you'll see players making raises here with a lot of hands besides the nuts. I think you need to see this river card every time in this spot. If you miss your low, and there is significant river action, you can drop, but I think this fold on the turn is -EV in a big way.

Tex