Dialing it up and shutting it down on the turn - two 10-20 hands

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
my thinking here was that if villain has an A, he would just bet right out, thinking I would probably fold to a c/r.

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Interesting, I hadn't considered this...mainly because I personally go for the c/r here with an A quite often so I hadn't factored it in. I like it much more if you know sam would reliably bet (and not c/r) the A.

Surf

[etizzle]

well I often see this turn get checked through. Most average players will check this through and call a river bet hoping to induce a bluff.

In general I dont like checking this through with only a pair of 7s.

[etizzle]

also, i think checking through is probably the play against a tough opponent that will both checkraise bluff and checkraise hands like A4 or K9.

I guess probably should've checked here against sam, yuk.

[sam h]

As is pretty obvious from the rest of the thread, Etizzle was actually hero in Hand 1 and I was the SB, with Qd6d. We didn't know each others identity during this hand.

I thought every decision there on the turn was pretty interesting, for both players. In retrospect I think I accomplish about as much by betting the turn as I do by checkraising. Any type of aggro line seems good to me here since I will often have 16 outs, assuming a queen is good. I'm not giving up that much when putting bets in and thus don't have to get him to fold very often for it to work. However, I guess the question is whether he will ever fold a pair here. I'm not really sure what the answer is. But it seems that part of the value maybe is not in getting a pair to fold but retaking the bluffing initiative. If he raised the flop with something like T8, 64, or K8 then now I am the rebluffer and can win the pot on the river uncontested assuming it bricks. But for that part of the value, a bet out will do as much as a checkraise. So that is why I think maybe betting is better but, once having bet, checkraising is not necessarily bad.

On Etizzle's part, I like betting the turn. I was opening a lot of hands at that table and it should have been pretty clear that my opening standards for the SB were pretty low. It would be interesting to try and figure out what the chances are of me having an ace there, given a wide opening range and the fact that I had played the flop the way I did. Intuitively, I don't think its higher than 25% but I really don't know. But another crucial factor to me seems to be the question of whether I will bluff a river blank if Etizzle checks. I think these bluffs are generally bad and don't make them often. But the higher my chance of bluffing, the better it is for Etizzle to check.

Finally, I think Etizzle's 3-bet was awesome. After the hand, two things popped into my head: "I just got owned" and "I should start doing that." It sucks if I cap but I really can't do that with anything less than aces up. I don't think a big hand is likely for me, as with A7 or A9 I probably would have 3-bet the flop and I probably don't slowplay a set or straight on this board and especially don't check when a turn card comes off that is likely to get checked through.

There seems to be a couple definite advantages. For one, if I had done this with KJ or K8 or something, I will have a hard time calling that turn three bet and may fold a six or seven out hand. For another, if I have the ace then Etizzle has to look me up anyway on the river, so he pays the same while being able to collect another bet if he makes a straight or two pair. Finally, I think this is a good statement play to make that you will not be messed around with in blind wars and it may get him more action on future hands.

Guess Hand 2 isn't that interesting. I originally was planning a post of two Qxs hands, but then changed it such that Hand 1 was from Etizzle's point of view. Then I just left that one in there. Results were that I bet the river, SB folded, BB called with JTo and MHIG.

I do wonder whether I should have bet the turn in Hand 2. I can definitely bet-fold there. And if the river blanks, I can't fold to a bet. I think I only save one when the river comes bad, or there is a bet and raise on the river. But I could have collected two more. I also wonder a bit about the preflop raise.