Can't get out of the starting gate (long and l/c)

[wulfheir]

Point taken.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

are you joking? this book has a rep as being terrible. i think you will do WAY better reading this forum than reading that book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not kidding. Maybe it was the right message at the right time, but I found that it helped me tremendously. It's a psychology book more than anything.

I had some psychological hurdles to clear before focusing on strategy.

And to your point, I have gotten more from 2+2 than any book I have ever bought.

Edit: I should point out that I read Killer Poker Online BEFORE I read Killer Hold 'Em Poker. The main complaint that people had about KPO was that the best information in the book was recycled from KHEP. Not having read the other one, I didn't know this.

Anyway, I have them both now, and I think they are very helpful. If I had to suggest one over the other, I'd say get Killer Hold 'Em.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been wanting to get additional resources like Harrington on Hold'em and Eastbay's Tools. However, I may have this catch-22 thing going. I feel like I should buy these out of my bankroll, once I turn a profit enough to afford it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make any logical sense. You need to study and learn before you can start turning a profit. The investment in HOH will waaaaay more than pay for itself very, very quickly.

But, to be brutally honest, the $11's on Party are very beatable with just good solid hold 'em skills. I would think a decent low limit hold 'em player could beat the $11's with no previous tourney experience. The fact that you've gone through about $500 (50X buy in more or less) indicates that you don't have basic hold 'em skills. So, at this point I wouldn't recommend HOH. I would recommend a more basic hold 'em book like Hold 'Em Poker or perhaps Getting Started in Hold 'Em (note, I have not read GSIT, but it sounds like a beginner's hold 'em book.)

Read HEP, play a while, read HEP again section by section playing between reading each section, then go for HOH and do the same thing with HOH.

Given what you write, I don't think your problem is BR management (your poker BR is ovbiously not just what you have deposited at the moment since you can reload so your real BR is larger than you think it is), nor is it just variance if your total loss is in the $500 range -- it is almost surely a lack of basic hold 'em skills. This can only be remedied by study.

[tminus]

take a break and read two books:
-Weighing The Odds in Holdem by King Yao
-Harrington on Holdem

they're worth their weight in chips...

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
"well, I got my money in with the best of it, that's variance.". Tired of telling myself, "You ran into a monster on the bubble, expect it to happen." Tired of telling myself, "You're bust again because you didn't properly bankroll yourself with 30xBuy-in.".


[/ QUOTE ]

If this is all true, you have nothing to worry about.

Search the threads for SnG simulations. I used the Excel-based one last night. Run it a few dozen times. It's sobering to see the long, deep, brutal downswings that are not just common, but virtually unavoidable in a group of 1000 SnG. Including many +200-buyin runs that started out -40 or -50 buyins.

But, you could also have leaks in your game. Use other's advice on this thread to plug leaks, wait for the upswing when you get some luck, and DO NOT GO ON TILT.

[pergesu]

Hey can you post a link to that excel sim? Tried sendin you a PM but you don't accept them.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt micro limit SNGs will teach him anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but the dude has lost $500 which based on the post seems like a lot of money to him. If you're not beating the limit you're playing at the only obvious course of action is to move down unless you don't care about losing money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or play less and read more.

I think the OP is looking too much at the refinement of his tools as an expense rather than an investment. It's not something that detracts from your profits; it's what makes them possible.

Everyone doing a job needs the tools to do it, and good tools can make a huge difference.

I'd recommend books and eastbay's SNG program as an investment in yourself. If you're going to be throwing your money around playing poker, a pretty questionable activity in the first place(to say the least), you want to at least do it prudently and with some kind of foundation behind you.

I agree that the people talking about how they turned 50 into 1000 bucks are an incredibly highly self-selected group, and far more common are the people who do NOT write about how they turned fifty bucks into nothing. Winning poker, over a long run, is in no way the norm or a natural thing anyone with a modicum of intelligence will wind up doing. The world isn't filled with winning poker players who've somehow managed to bump into and share some really, really rich fish. Most guys lose, period. Smart guys, too. If you want to win at poker, you're basically saying you want to be highly exceptional.

To do that, you have to invest in your tools. If you're playing poker for fun, then good books like 2+2 puts out, and good tools like eastbays, are just part of the whole, I dunno, feel of the thing. Like putting tassels on the handlebars of your bike or something, whatever. There's no need, and they probably won't help much anyway. But if you're actually serious, investing in your tools is your job, as it would be with any craftsman.

If you're not willing to put that much work into it, forget winning. Just have some fun when it happens, and relax. Poker is not really for you, and after a while you'll get tired of it and move on. That's cool. I used to skateboard a lot. Then I got tired of it.

Just be sure you know what it is you really want. If you really want to throw money at SNG's, spending it on something like eastbay's program just once is a lot more likely to make you a return than just flinging it randomly at games over and over again. It's just not as much short-term fun. What is it that you're after?

[wulfheir]

My illogical approach to my poker tools is just that, illogical. I have just purchased 2 books that were on my hit-list. This is another step I've been wanting to take, but never have.

In addition to this, for months I have been reviewing my hand histories to find areas that need improvement. I analyze hands posted here, then read the replies of others, who confirm my confidence in many situations.

I made another post in this thread with a bunch of hands that indicate that my approach appears sound.

To say that I want to be highly exceptional at poker sounds pretty accurate.

I have invested a lot of time, and some money, in this hobby. I want to spend more time and energy to develop my game. That's what brought me to this forum 7 months ago, that's the driving force behind me making my original post this morning.

I have gotten some valuable input, and am taking the advice and acting on it. Except for the advice to play fake money or find a new hobby.

[ QUOTE ]
What is it that you're after?

[/ QUOTE ]

Improvement. Just like jell-o, there is always room for it.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
I have just purchased 2 books that were on my hit-list.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would you mind listing them? There's a reasonable chance that people will suggest you return them immediately and get somethng else instead.

The books that appeal to beginner or bad players generally aren't the ones with the best info.

[Che]

wulf-

Have you kept accurate statistics? Specifically, could you produce a table/graph with the number of finishes that you have had in each place? That information might provide some clues that the experts could use to determine what your problem is. Examples of my (non-expert) guesses...

Lots of 8-10 finishes = overplaying one-pair hands early
Lots of 3-5 finishes = not aggressive enough on the bubble (i.e. not identifying situation to push marginal hands and/or not having the guts to follow through when situations are identified)

Posting lots of hands is your best bet, but I think your finish distribution might also reveal information that could be helpful.

Later,
Che