Stinking it up on the ultra low level tables... (.10/.25 & down)

[DJMaytag]

I'm back on here looking for answers after a pretty horrendous run the past few months where I had $320 on UB and about $100 on Paradise and now I have less than $50 between the two.

On UB I had a terrible stretch of not cashing on about 25 straight $5 SnG's and a rough couple days on the .10/.25 tables where I was getting sucked out on some really rough hands (lots of sets on the flop and getting called down by flush and str8 draws that hit). This was back in early March and I stopped playing regularly after that because I was getting really frustrated.

I returned for a few short sessions here on the lower levels on UB (mostly .05/.10) since then now that they finally added more nickel/dime tables and kept losing my buyins fairly quickly (and often doubling up and then losing it all). In that time I noticed that the games are getting wilder and wilder and regularly seeing the games devolve into total crap shoots (ie 4 or more people all in preflop or on the flop) with tons of family pots of 6 or more.

I know that many of you may be drooling at the idea of loose wild games like this, but going up against that many people that often, I get bit often by someone sucking out on me.

I know that one thing I have to work on is knowing how long to stick around. In a wild game it's often hard to leave when you've doubled up since the prospects of doing so again is very enticing, but I see others hitting big pots and splitting immediately and find that to be lame. I guess I have to balance the pros and cons of that aspect to determine how to choose when to leave.

The other thing is that I found play at the .10/.25 tables more to my liking as there were fewer players in a raised pot (3 or 4) and a good bet with an outkicked hand might win me a pot or two (NO bet will be laid down on the nickel/dime tables it seems). I'd LOVE to get back to this level, but I no longer have enough to play at this level (as I write this, I'm down to my last $1.26 after having he unfortunate luck of pushing with KK when someone had AA... which is typical of my luck in this streak...).

I kinda pride myself on the fact that I only ante'ed up $25 and took that to $600 before cashing out a couple hundred bucks and splitting the remainder up amongst UB, Paradise, and Party. I made it a point to be sure that I wasn't ever going to deposit any more into any sites, that my $25 was going to be all I'd ever put into gambling...

If I do manage to justify it, should I put in enough to comfortably play at higher levels? It seems as if the wildness just doesn't work for me at the pennies and nickel/dimes, while the .10/.25 seems like it's close to being right. I do play .25/.50 at home games with freinds with VERY short stacks ($10 buyins) and do well there, but it seems like I'd have to drop a load to have enough buyins to play at that level.

Just curious as to what some that are playing at these low of stakes are feeling about the games these days...

[kurto]

I just played the $10 tables at pokerstars tonight for a lark. It wasn't wild and crazy at all. Perhaps you should considering switching sites.

[PokerFink]

It is not uncommon for players to struggle with low stakes when they are capable of beating higher stakes. An aggressive strategy might work well at NL100, but will get you crushed at NL10 when everyone calls you down. It is imperative that you adjust your play to the stakes you are playing.

If you feel that your strategy is better suited for a higher limit, then play that limit. Otherwise, adjust your strategy so that you can beat the NL10 games.

As for leaving the table after doubling up, you should only do this if you do not feel comfortable playing deep-stacked poker. Any good player will tell you that it is best to set a time frame that you will play (say four hours), and stay at your table for those four hours unless the table gets bad, there is a better table avaliable, or you are unable to play your A game (due to tilt, lack of sleep, whatever).

Learning to play with deep stacks is an important part of becomming a better player. Deep stacked play can be incredibly profitable, because any mistake your opponent makes is magnified. This can lead to large edges against players who do not understand how to play deep.

[DJMaytag]

I lost my last $15 on UB last night, so UB is out of the picture right now. I have enough Ultimate Points to take a stab at a few tourneys to try to cash enough to play again.

I'm working on Paradise right now, trying to build back up that bankroll and move up to the .10/.25 tables that I was doing fairly well on (the 5 max tables at that level messed me up a little bit though). We'll see about trying some others. I did try Party (I think), but I didn't care for the high buyin/short stack. It seemed like you were just about going all in any hand.

[DJMaytag]

any tips on adjusting my play? it seems as if the rock strategy doesn't work anymore... people are becoming more observant and giving me no action when I raise (and if I limp with AA someone WILL hit two pairs with KJo or J9s and break me... it's just about guaranteed).

I know I loosen up preflop a bit with a big stack, but tighten up on the flop. I think this is one point where I have trouble with getting bit by flopping two pairs and getting sucked out or losing to a flopped set. This is where I'd rather just leave immediately after doubling up, but hate to do so and hate to tighten up pre-flop.



One thing I noticed is that around the time I took a turn for the worse, I started playing more tourneys and reading more books about tourney strategy. The play detailed in those books (Cloutier's and Harrington's first one) seemed to be geared towards better players, and I'm definitely not seeing them at this level... could following this strategy be totally inappropriate?

[amoeba]

if they give you no action when you make raises with legit hands, raise with more hands, not limp in with premium hands.

all you need is to have them all fold once and show some crap like 34 to get action on legit hands.

I heard Cloutier's book sucks for cash games.

you should read Ciaffone's Pot and No limit book.

[DJMaytag]

That doesn't seem to be working at a VERY fishy table I'm sitting at right now (f@cking penny tables might as well be play chips). I pushed the max buyin preflop with ATo and lost to Q9s.

Now if only I could hit a flop one of these days...

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Any good player will tell you that it is best to set a time frame that you will play (say four hours), and stay at your table for those four hours unless the table gets bad, there is a better table avaliable, or you are unable to play your A game (due to tilt, lack of sleep, whatever).


[/ QUOTE ]

They do?

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any good player will tell you that it is best to set a time frame that you will play (say four hours), and stay at your table for those four hours unless the table gets bad, there is a better table avaliable, or you are unable to play your A game (due to tilt, lack of sleep, whatever).


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They do?

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Yes. The proper way to play a session is not to jump around tables, "banking" your money every time you double up, but to stay put. As long as the table is good, stay there. The longer you stay at a table, the better your reads become.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
any tips on adjusting my play? it seems as if the rock strategy doesn't work anymore...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bull. Rockish poker is the easiest way to win.

How tight are you playing? Do you call raises with high cards? How often do you call a bet on the flop or turn and then fold later in the hand? How often do you call a bet on the river and loose a showdown? If you do these things, you are NOT playing good tight poker. Playing tight goes beyond preflop standards.

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(and if I limp with AA someone WILL hit two pairs with KJo or J9s and break me... it's just about guaranteed).

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Then learn how to play AA without going broke.

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...could following this strategy be totally inappropriate?

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Absolutely. Tournaments are a totally different ballgame.