a non thinking boring hand

rt1 · #1 10-06-2005, 09:24 AM

I was talking about this with a buddy tonight... seems like I find myself in this situation once a night and have really been giving my play here some thought.

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I have played 4 hands in this game. So for it looks tight, nothing great going on. 10 handed game. ZZZZZZ.

I am delt AT in the hijack (cutoff-1) and open raise. Folds to the button who 3 bets. I call and we are HU.

The flop (7.5sb) comes A72r
I lead, he raises, I call

Turn is a 3 (5.75bb)
I check, he bets...

Now, I have no read on this player... he has not played any of the previous four hands. I believe I am beat and drawing for 3 outs. I probably get a checkraise in when I get my outs 100% of the time. 3 of the 4 times I CR my hand is good (I lose to AA, i beat AK AQ AJ). I am thinking I will need to call 2 more BB at this point in order to win 7.5bb (not good odds!). If for whatever chance he checks behind the river, its 1:6.75 odds... still, not good.

I am assuming he is a thinking player (because I have no read). Why would he bet 88-KK on this turn, I always call down and he risks being check raised. If he checks behind with one of those hands I lead the river and he calls. He loses the same bets as if he were to check behind on the river and as I said, no worrying about a CR.

Part of me wants to fold my hand on the turn, but I come from the school of always call down / keep the other guy honest. I have made it pretty clear that I have the ace and so far he is saying he has an ace beat. Not much communication, I know... but I dont see me beating much here.

So, how many of you call down here. I shouldnt be surprised when everyone says 'easy call'...

Thanks,
Ryan

#2 10-06-2005, 09:46 AM

I'd check-raise the flop. If he 3-bets I'd call and then lead the turn. If he raises, I'm ditching it.

Nick Royale · #3 10-06-2005, 09:48 AM

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I'd check-raise the flop. If he 3-bets I'd call and then lead the turn. If he raises, I'm ditching it.

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Try WA/WB next time...

#4 10-06-2005, 09:57 AM

Hmm, with my line (c-r/call flop, lead turn) you lose 2.5 BBs if you're behind. That is, after showing that much strength I think you can safely fold to his turn raise unless he's a total maniac. But with the WA/WB you lose 3BB is you're behind, maybe 4BB if he raises on the river... or do you fold to a river raise? I guess you would...?

#5 10-06-2005, 10:01 AM

I guess the problem with my line is that you don't win the max when you're ahead though... ie he folds his underpair to my flop checkraise.

Nick Royale · #6 10-06-2005, 10:05 AM

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I guess the problem with my line is that you don't win the max when you're ahead though... ie he folds his underpair to my flop checkraise.

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Yup, that's the greatest benefit.

And I bet/fold the river. If I play against a player that I think I would need pay off a raise against, I'm check/calling. If he's aggressive enough to raise a worse A or PP I think he'll often bet the river for me anyways.

Nick Royale · #7 10-06-2005, 09:46 AM

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3 of the 4 times I CR my hand is good (I lose to AA, i beat AK AQ AJ)

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AA: 1 combo
AK/AQ/AJ: 24
If this is the range of hands you put him on you're good 24 times in 25 when you check/raise.

The standard line for this situation is WA/WB. Check/call, check/call, bet. This way you gain the most of KK-88.

rt1 · #8 10-06-2005, 09:54 AM

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The standard line for this situation is WA/WB. Check/call, check/call, bet. This way you gain the most of KK-88.

[/ QUOTE ]

He raises the river I have to fold, but I hate doing that.

Nick Royale · #9 10-06-2005, 09:55 AM

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The standard line for this situation is WA/WB. Check/call, check/call, bet. This way you gain the most of KK-88.

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He raises the river I have to fold, but I hate doing that.

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Then check/call the river too.

alul · #10 10-06-2005, 02:09 PM

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The standard line for this situation is WA/WB. Check/call, check/call, bet. This way you gain the most of KK-88.

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He raises the river I have to fold, but I hate doing that.

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I recently learned that line from W.Deranged post, tried it several times. It works just fine. Even if you are beat by ace+higher kicker you never get raised on the river, so you can safely fold to a river raise.