Dropping AKos preflop

#1 08-03-2005, 11:34 AM

I've never done this before. But being on the small blind, I thought it was a good play. Am I an idiot or actually learning?

MP1 is 25/8.3 after 12 hands. Button is 50/6.25 after 48 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Obviously I wanted in there after the flop. But was it right to fold AK out of position there?

W. Deranged · #2 08-03-2005, 11:38 AM

This fold is too tight, in my opinion. Villain's don't have pfr numbers that are notably low, and your stats are over way too many hands.

My preferred play here is actually to cold-call two and a half here and then play poker on the flop.

#3 08-03-2005, 11:43 AM

So a cold-call over the raise, because we're probably not making MP1 drop his hand anyway? Hmmm. That doesn't sound that bad. Jones and SSHE just seem so adamant about AKs being worth the cap, but none of the hand charts seem to advocate playing AKos in this spot. Yes, I AM trying to wean myself off the hand charts, that's one of the reasons I posted this.

W. Deranged · #4 08-03-2005, 11:48 AM

It's pretty thin, but you would certainly not be dumping this hand for 2 bets (in fact, you'd be putting in the third bet), and you're already in for half a bet, so I don't think a fold is in order here. A cap would actually not be that bad, but I think that there are some benefits to just calling the bet and allowing yourself more options on the flop. You're not probably going to try to win this hand without improving, considering how much strength your opponents have showed, so I think it pays to wait until the flop to get particularly aggressive. The preflop raiser is not that likely to dump his hand for two back to him, and you don't even really want him to, because if he's playing a hand like AQ or AJ you want him around. You're probably going to have to improve anyway, so getting him to fold a pair is not that worthwhile.

SmileyEH · #5 08-03-2005, 11:52 AM

In the words of KKF, "cap that [censored]".

-SmileyEH

W. Deranged · #6 08-03-2005, 11:54 AM

Smiley,

What are the arguments for capping over calling?

I honestly think it's close but I think it'll be worthwhile to get some debate going as to why some prefer capping to calling (which I prefer).

SmileyEH · #7 08-03-2005, 11:56 AM

Well by capping we can fold out other Ak's postflop, and plus in a 3way pot I think we have more than 33% equity anyway. Also, initiative is a good bonus as well...at least I think it is. I don't think I've ever just called with AK preflop before fwiw.

-SmileyEH

callmedonnie · #8 08-03-2005, 12:03 PM

Here's a shot, though I think its pretty close and not too terrible either way.

The merits of calling are that you will be raising OOP, it isn't suited so you are playing TPTK most likely, and you aren't going to force anyone out PF. Plus, you also disguise your hand as many people expect you to cap w/ AK, and MP1 may be a thinking player.

The merit of capping is for value when you hit, as you may have the best hand in this spot, even with the three bettor. Also, it allows you to take control in the hand. You can't force MP1 out on flop, but if you lead the flop (which you will if you cap) you may get him to fold pp that don't improve and get HU w/ button who doesn't seem all that formidable.

hobbsmann · #9 08-03-2005, 12:05 PM

willy, I cap this every time in this situation, but I think I've been playing too much 6 max recently.

W. Deranged · #10 08-03-2005, 12:06 PM

Donnie's summary gets to the main points.

I don't have a very clear idea which effects are stronger, though. I like that you have more options available on the flop if you don't cap, but this may be a situation where the EV is extremely close and you can make a decision based on preferred playing style.

Mixing it up in this situation is certainly good, too, if playing in a live game with some observant players.