betting river scare card

[foldingmachine]

If you've played 08 enough, you know this dilemma. You flop or turn the A high flush, now the board pairs on the river. You are first to act, what's your play? To simplify, the board has no low. I've done both, checking then watching everybody check behind me and my flush is good to betting and getting raised to a boat on the river. Do you have a default play?

[Bosyn]

I don't have a "Default" play. It really depends on the table and my position on it. If it's a tight table and I'm early I'll raise 9 times out 10.

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[foldingmachine]

..the table is loose passive, and you are first to act.

[Alchemist]

I check, especially if there's 2 or more people to act after you and especially if there was no low draw on the flop. What else could they be calling all this way for? I know there will be retards who hang around hoping their J-high flush will hold up, but I'd rather only put in one BB (or fold) to see someone's rivered boat rather than bet into them. It's not much of a value bet since (normal) folks who still haven't improved at the river should fold if bet into again anyway.

[Buzz]

Folding Machine - When the board pairs on the river and you check your nut flush from first position, someone behind you with a full house will probably bet, but maybe not. Depends.

Thus you might save a big bet by not betting on the river. Probably not but maybe.

And you might gain a big bet by not betting on the river because somebody who might have folded to you bet might try to buy one. Because of table image considerations (and because of the possibility of someone behind you trying to buy one), I think you're generally stuck calling one big bet here.

Since you've probably already indicated "flush" in the betting, if you bet and then subsequently get raised, I think you generally have to call the raise. Why? Because it might easily be a bluff-raise by someone who puts you on the flush and thinks you, fearing the raise is from a full house or quads, might (weakly) fold to the raise. Takes guts to make a bluff raise on the river, but I've seen it and I've done it.

Calling a double big bet or not after you have checked is a tougher decision, as is calling a double raise or not after you have bet. But those are not what you're asking about.

If you bet your nut flush when the board pairs on the river, only very rarely will anybody fold a full house on the river, even the worst possible full house. Thus betting your nut flush is not going to knock out anybody with a better hand.

But betting may knock out opponents who would have otherwise tried to buy the pot with a hand worse than yours. Thus betting may actually lose a big bet for you.

I don't see how betting can gain you anything but I do see how it can lose you one big bet, either by not inducing a late position bluff, or by paying off a raiser with a full house.

Do you bet, hoping some fool without a full house and without even the nut flush will call? Do you bet, risking a raise and the possible payment of two big bets to an opponent with a full house? Do you bet, risking having a late position bluffer fold trash instead of trying to buy a pot with it?

Or do you check, (1) not wanting to pay two big bets, and vaguely hoping either somebody behind you either (2) tries to buy it or (3) misses a bet with a full house?

Seems pretty straight-forward to me. You check and call.

Buzz

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
watching everybody check behind me and my flush is good

[/ QUOTE ]

You only missed some $$ there if they would have called your bet.

As always, right answer is it depends, but as a very general guideline i like check-calling better on balance.