$11's ITM call w/ Q9o (3 handed)

[Sciolist]

Run the numbers a lot! You'll remember them sooner or later. Scenarios like overcards vs. pairs, or one high card one undercard vs. middle cards, or two undercards vs. two overcards and so on, they come up all the time.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
You're underdog to pocket pairs, Ax and Kx, but you have the pot odds to call, which is what counts. You're pretty close to having odds to call QT+ as well. 2.5:1 are your pot odds, and you're 1:3 to win against QT.

To calculate your EV vs. a range of hands, take a look at this: http://koti.mbnet.fi/jraevaar/pokercalculator/

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks

[Sciolist]

I just realised I got the odds a bit wrong. You're 2:1 against QT+, so those hands are ruled out. I always think of my odds in terms of percentages, and so confuse myself when I go into ratios...

I would only put in the initial raise if the bb plays too tight in this spot (as many people do). Q9 is just not strong enough w/out a lot of FE. Once you've raised, defintly call the SS push.

[kyro]

Easy call getting 2.5:1 on his call. Also, what's wrong with initial raise? It's 3-handed and you need to stay aggressive but pushing would be foolish.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy call getting 2.5:1 on his call. Also, what's wrong with initial raise? It's 3-handed and you need to stay aggressive but pushing would be foolish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain why, I often push this based on what I have read for ITM play, but I need to make some adjustments (I either push or fold)

[45suited]

Thanks kyro. For the record, I was the player with the Q9o. (Don't know about being described in the OP as a "respected poster", but heh... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

I told the OP that I had made my bed with the initial raise, but once BB pushed, the call was trivially easy. I compared folding to the push with folding KK to a mini-raise.

Quite a few people have replied to this thread saying that they didn't like the initial raise. (People that I have a lot of respect for.) I understand their reasoning, but quite often, this takes the pot. Q9o three handed isn't great, but it's not complete crap either.

Edit: comparing it to folding KK to a mini-raise is too extreme, but it is still a mandatory call.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks kyro. For the record, I was the player with the Q9o. (Don't know about being described in the OP as a "respected poster", but heh... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]).

I told the OP that I had made my bed with the initial raise, but once BB pushed, the call was trivially easy. I compared folding to the push with folding KK to a mini-raise.

Quite a few people have replied to this thread saying that they didn't like the initial raise. (People that I have a lot of respect for.) I understand their reasoning, but quite often, this takes the pot. Q9o three handed isn't great, but it's not complete crap either.

Edit: comparing it to folding KK to a mini-raise is too extreme, but it is still a mandatory call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I am just trying to fully understand this entire situation... with respect to opening w/ a 3xbb bet and then calling all-in... why not just push to begin with?

OR what if villain calls, what is your line on the flop... assume flop misses and flop helps... scary flop vs rags...

How do the pot odds now affect your play post flop?

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I am just trying to fully understand this entire situation... with respect to opening w/ a 3xbb bet and then calling all-in... why not just push to begin with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bigstack hadn't done anything to make me think that he'd push with any two vs a standard raise from me. So, if he pushed over my raise, I'm folding. No point giving up a good chance for 2nd in the event that bigstack picks up a hand.

[ QUOTE ]
OR what if villain calls, what is your line on the flop... assume flop misses and flop helps... scary flop vs rags...

[/ QUOTE ]

If he checks to me, I can't imagine any flop that I'm not betting, most likely putting BB all-in.