Interesting lets talk about a fair ruling

[slavic]

4/8 game 9 handed.

Player A checkraises player B on the river.

Player B looks at his cards, has that defeated look on his face, pushes his cards forward of the action line but does not unprotect them. He sits back arms folded.

Player A sees this as a muck and tosses in his hand.

Player B calls

[TheMetetron]

Player A shouldn't have mucked until he got the pot. People who do this are just asking for trouble. Now having said that, I'd punch Player B in the face outside the casino for being a prick. Not sure on the official ruling though.

I've been absolutely no help.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
pushes his cards forward of the action line but does not unprotect them.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is another reason an "action line" or "betting line" is a bad idea. An ergonomics line is a wonderful idea; draw a line on the table that has no effect on the rules but if a player places something for the dealer outside it the dealer tells him to put it ocer the line. If there were no line on this table (or the line had no impact on the rules) the second player woudl have a dead hand for hacing pushed his cards forward and anotehr player reacting to it. I have never played or worked someplace with an "action line" so I am not familiar with rulings based on this line. When people have asked my opinion of this line I have said it causes more problems than it solves.

Randy Refeld

[Chipr777]

My opinion here is, based on the key words "but does not unprotect them", the cards are live and are not mucked. I have a vision in my mind that player "B" had a chip or his hand still on the cards? If this is the case his hand is indeed live, and player "A", that mucked his hand looses the pot.

[mostsmooth]

im not familiar with this "action line" but if it is drawn on the table and is used to clarify an action (duh) ie if chips cross it its a bet, i would assume if cards cross it when facing a bet they are mucked. i dont think it should matter if the cards are still protected or not (with a marker a hand or whatever). suppose the guy wasnt using a marker and did the same thing, would you think his hand should still be live? suppose instead of pushing his hand forward, he tossed them forward? the protection and the manner in which he caused them to cross this line shouldnt matter, he was facing a bet and surrendered his cards(if i am correctly understanding what the action line is).
player A was foolish for not waiting for the chips to be pushed to him.
player A was foolish if he didnt call the floor and get a ruling.
again, the above is based on my understanding that the action line is used to determine whether an action has occurred.

[youtalkfunny]

I've been saying for years, that line starts more arguements than it resolves.

BTW, I draw my own "ergonomics line" when I sit at a table with short-armed players. I pick up a chip or two, and scratch a line into the vinyl "speedi-cloth". It looks like a little chalk line, and it's not permanent. I draw a sweeping arc in one motion, and announce, "Folks, THIS is as far as I can reach." And the players are more than happy to accommodate. And everyone knows that this line has no legal ramifications--it's just to make things easier for the dealer.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I draw a sweeping arc in one motion, and announce, "Folks, THIS is as far as I can reach." And the players are more than happy to accommodate.

[/ QUOTE ]

This method works well in friendly games. I was glad to a line come to Califronia. Prior to a line there were some players that after taking a beat (or just general jerks) would indicate they were out of the hand by putting it against the rail (or occasionally under) and backing away from the table.

Randy Refeld

Edit: I almost forgot abouta special class of player. They would toss their cards towards the dealer but a littl bit shorter each time until they foudn the spot the dealer couldn't reach and then always toss them to that spot.

[theantelope]

Are you a female dealer at Foxwoods? If not, some chick is stealing your routine.