Love or Hate?

[Felipe]

<font color="red"> what is <font color="blue"> FPS</font>? </font>

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="red"> what is <font color="blue"> FPS</font>? </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Fancy Play Syndrome

[Felipe]

<font color="blue"> HHAHAHAHAHAHA</font>

[Bob T.]

I think the whole question here, is not does pokerbob have a think equity edge, because he probably does, but given that he does have a thin equity edge, did he play this correctly?

I don't think so. I think that he could have played the turn either of two ways, and it would probably make him more money if he made his hand on the river.

He could check as he did, call the turn bet, and then look to checkraise the river if he improves.

Or he could just bet out on the turn, and call a raise if it happens. He still gets value if they all call, and that seems likely, but other strange things could happen, like they all fold.

I like either of these two lines, because if he happens to make trips, he is almost guaranteed to be able to checkraise the field if someone else has taken the initiative, and he will be able to make a lot of bets, with the minimum risk.

If he makes the flush, he isn't as likely to get to checkraise, because he needs his opponents to bet, and it is possible, that they won't be giving him action, unless he doesn't want it.

Similarly, if he makes two pair, there is a distinct possibility that he is behind, so he probably can't checkraise the river, because he may only get action from the hands that he doesn't want to play against. I think he probably needs to bet out, and call one bet if he makes either the flush, or two pair.

I think that just playing the hand simply, probably gives you the best result overall.

[PokerBob]

Bob,
I appreciate your response. One question I have is concerning the flush. If I c/r the turn and the spade hits, are my opponents likely to give me credit for the the flush, as my aggression indicates a made hand?

On the other hand, if the flush card comes, wouldn't this tend to freeze some of the river action, thus making a c/r a possible whiff? Or do you feel that since the flush would be runnerrunner, that most would discount it?

[Bob T.]

One question I have is concerning the flush. If I c/r the turn and the spade hits, are my opponents likely to give me credit for the the flush, as my aggression indicates a made hand?


Yes they are, so they are slightly more likely to pay you off. But if they really are all donks, they might pay you off anyway.

On the other hand, if the flush card comes, wouldn't this tend to freeze some of the river action, thus making a c/r a possible whiff? Or do you feel that since the flush would be runnerrunner, that most would discount it?

Anytime the flush comes on the river, it might freeze the action. It's the one possibility that everyone can see.

It didn't come runner runner, two spades were on the flop, that is why you could bet the flop, you had bottom pair with a flush draw.

[PokerBob]

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It didn't come runner runner, two spades were on the flop, that is why you could bet the flop, you had bottom pair with a flush draw.

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This is why I will never be a sound player. I can't even remember the board texture of the hands I was in. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[chson]

Awesome play. Screw these guys who see monsters under the bed.

[JoshuaD]

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Meh I don't really understand it at all. I'm kinda from the old school in that I like to put my money in the middle with the flush and not the flush draw. Call here, river a frush and then pull off a sweet check/raise with like 90% equity instead of ~25%.

Brad

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You're forgetting the fold equity you pick up when you bet.

[Megenoita]

Hey PokerBob,

Sorry so late in getting back to you on the math (I was sleeping).

I see what you did now-I think. In your initial math, did you add the bets on the turn together to get 10? In other words, there were 4 turn bets when it came to your decision. You raised, making the turn bets total 6, and 4 people called, for a total of 10 bets. Is that right?

If that is what you did, it's wrong, because you can't count the bets you put into the pot. You would have to say that you win 8 turn bets (+ 2 river bets), not 10, when you c/r.

What I did in my math was compare that when you call, you win 6 BB that were in the pot before the turn + 4 BBs that occurred on the turn + 2 BBs on the river when you make your hand. Raising would be 6 BBs that were in the pot before the turn + 4 BBs when it came to your turn decision + 4 BBs more that you get from them when you c/r the turn (discount your bets on the turn) + 2 BBs on the river.

When you did the math calling versus raising, did you count the bets correctly? It should come out even considering the figures you gave-or at least very close to even.

Again, I think your figures were ultra conservative and anything more happy than what you assumed for the math leads this to being conclusive for the c/r to be the better choice.

M