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#11
07-05-2005, 09:37 AM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
Live games are different but in tourniment play any chips that go in the pot must stay. The floor here was wrong. If the bet was $800 and you threw in $2000 without saying anything the bet is $2000.
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#13
07-05-2005, 12:42 PM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
Yeah, that's my feeling. It all went well for me in this case, but on principle, I think this was a bad call.
The really interesting thing is, I think it hurt the original bettor to make the decision. He was a 'nice guy' and just let it stand as a call, but I took that asa possible sign of weakness on his part, correctly as it turns out.
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#14
07-05-2005, 12:46 PM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
[ QUOTE ]
The really interesting thing is, I think it hurt the original bettor to make the decision. He was a 'nice guy' and just let it stand as a call, but I took that asa possible sign of weakness on his part, correctly as it turns out. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly, this is where abuse of the rule and angle shooting comes in. The floor made a bad decision alright, He should have made the raise stand! You own this casino now.. If you're in a big pot and can't get a read on your opponent, when that same floorman is working, get in there and accidently throw the wrong chips in the pot, then ask your opponent which one he accepts the call or the raise. Poor floor decision.. The raise should have stand.
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#15
07-05-2005, 12:55 PM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
[ QUOTE ]
And you're not just saying that because the floor guy is a friend of yours, right? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I have no idea where he played, so I don't know if I know the floor or not. TT
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#17
07-05-2005, 02:19 PM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I've seen cases where a player who did no wrong (in this case the original bettor) gets to make this sort of decision but I don't like it here, mostly because there are more betting rounds to come. Had it been the river, I don't see the harm in it. [/ QUOTE ] Rick: Considering that both players erred in this situation and there were players in the hand, I think the floors ruling was fair although I admit it was rather unique for this scenario. He wanted to keep the players happy, the game moving, and his customers returning. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I don't see where the original bettor erred (although a very, very careful player would make sure he has proper denominations for betting before the hand begins). Assuming the facts you wrote are what the floor heard, he did make a creative ruling and sometimes that can be OK for the reasons you stated. But I still prefer limiting this type of ruling to the river since the only person who can easily/usually benefit from the error is the person who didn't make it - in this case the lead bettor. Making this ruling early in the hand provides a lot of information to the player who made the error (i.e. the player who put in 2000 now knows the lead bettor didn't like a raise can this information can be used against him the next two betting rounds). Of course we all know that in the real world these kind of bets are taken back all the time without the floor being involved and that's more or less OK head up. But once the floor is called, he needs to make the proper ruling based on the rules, especially where the rule is clear. ~ Rick
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#18
07-05-2005, 02:23 PM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
[ QUOTE ]
The really interesting thing is, I think it hurt the original bettor to make the decision. He was a 'nice guy' and just let it stand as a call, but I took that asa possible sign of weakness on his part, correctly as it turns out. [/ QUOTE ] Note that I wrote my post a few minutes ago that mentioned this problem before reading this portion of the thread. IMO this is the big problem with creative rulings early in the hand. ~ Rick
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#19
07-05-2005, 05:06 PM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
[ QUOTE ]
He is me, and I told you last night in email where I was. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] oh... yes I DO know the floor. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#20
07-06-2005, 08:28 AM
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Re: Crazy floor decision.. I think
[ QUOTE ]
Considering that both players erred in this situation [/ QUOTE ] I have no idea how the original player erred. There's nothing wrong with declaring "$800" as you put out two purple chips. The OP's 'accidental' raise should have been forced to stand (and since he didn't speak it HAS to be a raise to $2k). To allow otherwise is just inviting all kind of weird angle-shoots. If you don't say anything then your chip actions HAVE to speak. Otherwise....every time someone bets $25 at me I can jut flip a $500 chip out there, gauge their immediate reaction, and then pull it back and 'claim' that I meant to bet my green chip if I determine in that instant that I just want to call. We had almost the exact same thing happen in my tournament last night at the Palms. Guy next to me meant to call a $75 bet but 'accidentally' put out 2 green AND a black (instead of 3 green as he intended). He quickly said 'oops..that was an accident' and replaced the black with a green. It was obviously unintended and not an angle-shoot. nobody complained...I wasn't in the hand so I didn't care very much. Just thought it was interesting. He was experienced enough to know that he had gotten away with one though and knows he should have been held to the raise (as we discussed briefly after the hand concluded) and that the dealer just didn't hold him to it. The green chips look too close to the black chips in their tourneys there imo...it was an easy mistake to make.
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