A Turn Play w/ JT

[krimson]

All opponents in the hand are loose, nobody is overly passive or aggressive. The BB is a TAG but does not come into the hand. None of them are complete donks.

I think this entire hand is questionable. Not sure if JT is even a profitable call here pre-flop? I didn't want to raise since the Button would likely come along anyways. I go for overcalls on the flop, and then use the scare card on the turn to semi-bluff. I'm hoping this raise at least gets rid of hands like AJ/AT and possible weak queens to clear up outs. Taking the hand down here would be nice as well.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, ...

What sort of hands do you think the UTG is limping in with?

The problem I see here is that its very likely the UTG has a queen, so he's not folding in this hand. In the case that he has a 9, he just got trips.

As a result, your semi bluff to knock out people and clean up your outs doesnt make sense at all. It doesnt look like you will win this hand with a pair of tens or jacks.

All that knocking those players out of the pot does it make their chance of calling the turn and river absolutely zero. On the turn this gives you worse pot odds to hit your straight. On the river, this gives you less people to potentially pay you off.

Also, consider your hand from the donks perspective. If you really had the nine, do you think that he would think you'd raise? Of course not. He'd expect you to slowplay it. By raising you are saying "I dont have the nine"

[ArturiusX]

Just play it straight up. Call and fold river UI, raise it improved.

[me454555]

PF: Not a huge fan of limping here b/c too many things can go wrong and I don't think its profitable
Flop: This is m standard play
Turn: Given your description of this guy as loose, I don't think he's laying down to your semibluff. Getting rid of AT/AJ is a good idea but I'd want the pot to be a little bit bigger relative to the turn bet for me to raise for this reason.

I think that the time to make this play was on the flop where you were getting 10:2 on your raise w/2 cards to come. After Sb checks, its pretty obvious he's got AK, AJ, or some low PP. At that time, I think its important to get him to lay down. The other thing you must take into account with this play is that if UTG has Qx, which is a distinct possibilty, this play loses a ton of value b/c you are no longer cleaning up outs. The combined possibility of cleaning up outs plus the free card possibility w/the size of the pot prolly makes raising the flop ok

I dont understand why you wouldnt want callers to improve your pot odds for your open-ended straight draw. It seems a certainty that after a preflop raise, the UTG's flop donk-bet into multiple people indicates a Q.

[me454555]

My standard play is just to call the flop for the callers but a case could be made for raising b/c

1) The pot is big
2) We might clear up an out
3) We might get a free card
4) Theres no certainty the player behind us are coming along

For those reasons, I don't see raising the flop as that bad a play even though its not my first choice