Guilt by Association

[SheetWise]

A subject that pops up frequently is competency --especially (in free market context) when the subject is public employees. I'm as guilty as anyone here. I'd like summarize two examples that anchor my thoughts, and ask why we should have any exceptional respect for these people as a group.

Teachers. I know very few people who actually work in the field they were specifically educated in (e.g. finance, economics, history). I also know of very few people who would pursue a course of instruction without knowing how they would or could apply it. Any person who chooses to prepare themselves as a teacher has more knowledge about what their economic future is going to look like than any student on any other course. Teachers pay has always been low -- and if there has been any movement, it's slow. My point here is that anyone who intentionally takes a career path, knowing what it has historically paid, and then complains about how underpaid they are, should not be teaching our children.

That being said, these people then form a union which refuses to acknowledge the incompetent practitioners among its members, or acknowledge any standards of performance or accountability. Why should I take them seriously? Even though I know it's not true - why should I not consider them all equally incompetent if they won't bother to take the time to clean up their own profession? The purpose of the union is to allow them all to speak with a common voice -- why should I not assume the union speaks for them?

Police. Police always publicly state that they hold their members to a "higher standard" than the general public -- which they should. Yet, when one of 'their own' is in trouble -- they consistently (and privately) hold them to a lower standard. I have no doubt, that the civic attitudes that I hold are more in line with members of the police force than the general public -- but, since they refuse to maintain standards in their own ranks, why should I take them seriously?

All professions and associations are smeared when one of their own behaves badly -- or have shown themselves to be deficient in the standards the group publicly holds up as a standard. When the group collectively fails or refuses to acknowledge a glaring failure among their own, is it wrong for the public to paint the group with a broad brush?

This would not be acceptable among a group willing to take individual accountability and responsibility. The insulation and protection these groups receive by their camaraderie comes at a cost -- and that cost is paid in the currency of public trust.

I truly agree with your examples and statements regarding teachers. I have dated a girl that comes from a long family line of teachers and they rarely complain about pay or benefits... they complain about real issues like class size and additional funds needed for the STUDENTS (what an idea).

However, I also know hundreds of teachers who failed in their originally chosen profession; and appear to be teaching for a pay-check until something better comes along.

The problem is that the teachers unions appeal to us with the stories of the aforementioned... but really push an agenda that favors the latter of the two. Another catch 22.

As far as police... who knows what the hell these guys do when one of their own commits a crime.

[BadBoyBenny]

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The purpose of the union is to allow them all to speak with a common voice -- why should I not assume the union speaks for them?

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You could say the same thing abtu democarcy, but any administration does not speak for all the US citizens.

My brother is a teacher in Washington state, he doesn't have a choice of whether or not to join the union. The teachers union is dominated by old people with outdated skills who don't understand their students but want tenure based pay. No one in the union is going to change because my brother has better ideas.

That said, any teacher who complains about their pay should be reminded of there large amount of vacation, or how they can make extra money in the summers doing other work. Very few other salaried professions in the US have similar opportunities.

I will not defend police at all. I have seen several of them lie in court because they believed someone was guilty but didn't have gthe proper evidence. To me they are almost all liars and thugs.

[elwoodblues]

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However, I also know hundreds of teachers who failed in their originally chosen profession

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I call bullshit.

[SheetWise]

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I will not defend police at all. I have seen several of them lie in court because they believed someone was guilty but didn't have the proper evidence. To me they are almost all liars and thugs.

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I have seen several lie in court as well -- but I've seen more tell the truth. Go figure.

Several friends work as public defenders -- and are all good people, who would never wish for a dangerous criminal to go free -- yet, that's the result of what they do for a living. Over the years each of them has told some version of the same story -- they would be happier as prosecutors, if only the police would stop lying.

[SheetWise]

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However, I also know hundreds of teachers who failed in their originally chosen profession; and appear to be teaching for a pay-check until something better comes along.


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It's actually quite a difficult field to enter, even temporarily, unless you were on track as a licensed practitioner at some point in your educational ambitions.

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As far as police... who knows what the hell these guys do when one of their own commits a crime.

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That's one of the reasons judges have chambers.

[fluxrad]

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However, I also know hundreds of teachers who failed in their originally chosen profession

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I call bullshit.

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It's the oldest saying in the world:

Those who can't do, teach.

I disagree, but hey...there's truth in every saying.

[SheetWise]

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I disagree, but hey...there's truth in every saying.


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Might this be akin to the cardroom patron who has never lost a session -- but knows hundreds who have?

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I disagree, but hey...there's truth in every saying.


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Might this be akin to the cardroom patron who has never lost a session -- but knows hundreds who have?

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concur