Multiculturalism. Is it suicide?

[SheetWise]

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Only one faith on earth may be more messianic than Islam: multiculturalism. Without it — without its fanatics who believe all civilizations are the same — the engine that projects Islam into the unprotected heart of Western civilization would stall and fail. It's as simple as that. To live among the believers — the multiculturalists — is to watch the assault, the jihad, take place, unrepulsed by our suicidal societies. These societies are not doomed to submit; rather, they are eager to do so in the name of a masochistic brand of tolerance that, short of drastic measures, is surely terminal.

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[Cyrus]

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Only one faith on earth may be more messianic than Islam: multiculturalism. Without it — without its fanatics who believe all civilizations are the same — the engine that projects Islam into the unprotected heart of Western civilization would stall and fail. It's as simple as that.

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The text, cited above, is coming from a Washington Times writer, which should be warning enough. Nonetheless, the points expressed in the text can be summarily dismissed.

The claim "All cultures are the same" must always be qualified. What is it supposed to mean ?

If it means that every culture has value, in the moral values it is based on and imparts, the claim is correct. If it means that those values are the same in every culture and that, therefore, all moral values are the same, then it is wrong. (People who support leaving alone or condoning barbaric practices, eg clit-cutting, on the grounds that we must respect the customs of others are simply being idiots.)

But multiculturalism stands, generally, for something more easy to understand : Tolerance for the Other, for the Different-than-us, for the Stranger. Accepting as equal in worthiness of respect any custom followed by aliens that's otherwise harmless, eg wearing a turban in Lahore, beads-for-tits in New Orleans, etc.

I'm all for combatting moral relativism, a deviant form of political correctness, yes. But those who are quick to badmouth multiculturalism are usually the folks who are the most prone to intolerance. It's a very reliable call.

[MMMMMM]

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But multiculturalism stands, generally, for something more easy to understand : Tolerance for the Other, for the Different-than-us, for the Stranger. Accepting as equal in worthiness of respect any custom followed by aliens that's otherwise harmless, eg wearing a turban in Lahore, beads-for-tits in New Orleans, etc.

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Cyrus, the point and the problem is that many of the customs and philosophies of Islam are NOT harmless--especially to others (and to women).

What's more, Islam is ANTI-tolerance.

Get it now?

[Cyrus]

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The point and the problem is that many of the customs and philosophies of Islam are NOT harmless--especially to others (and to women). What's more, Islam is ANTI-tolerance. Get it now?

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You are referring to Radical Islam, I trust.

Otherwise, we should be after the followers of the Jewish Faith with equal ferocity. I mean, better get 'em now, when they are comatose, right?

The resident Jewish expert explains why, after Judaism, Islam is the organized religion that is closest to the truth

[MMMMMM]

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The point and the problem is that many of the customs and philosophies of Islam are NOT harmless--especially to others (and to women). What's more, Islam is ANTI-tolerance. Get it now?

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You are referring to Radical Islam, I trust.

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No, Cyrus.

Islam ITSELF is intolerant towards others. The *ideological basis* of Islam is intolerant towards others.

The Koran is, literally, intolerant towards others.

"Radical" Islam is a term used to describe the beliefs of those who take the Koran completely literally and seriously, and attempt to put its instructions into practice.

Among those instructions are many, many passages in which the Koran enjoins Muslims to fight unbelievers, to subjugate them, to kill them, to terrorize them.

The Koran calls for personal submission to Allah, AND FOR FORCING THE REST OF THE WORLD TO SUBMIT TO ALLAH TOO.

That is why the Koranic choices to be given to infidels is: to convert to Islam, to submit to Islamic rule and pay a special tax, or to be killed. The goal of Islam is not only personal submission to the will of Allah, but also to rule the entire world by Islamic law (by force where needed). Then the whole world will be at peace, following the will of Allah.

Radical Islamists just take all of this (and more) literally, and try to do it, because they are trying to follow the will of Allah as spelled out for them in the Koran.

[ACPlayer]

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That is why the Koranic choices to be given to infidels is: to convert to Islam, to submit to Islamic rule and pay a special tax, or to be killed. T

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This is AN interpretation of the Koran for "infidels" living in Islamic states. The Koran clearly requires that living in peace with peaceful neighbours be practiced, that war was to by undertaken only to defend Islam. The Koran also clearly protects societies and people that are of the book.

Your information sources pick and choose quotes, and interpret them in order to reach predefined conclusions. You reliance of sources like MEMRI is one example (your other linked sources are no less propagandist in nature) of tainted sources.

Militant and extremist Islam are, like all fundamentalists, a danger to free societies.

Some day, perhaps, just perhaps, you will open your mind.

[fluxrad]

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Islam ITSELF is intolerant towards others. The *ideological basis* of Islam is intolerant towards others.


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Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the Bible says you can sell your daughter, whores should be stoned, and when "God" tells you to off someone you'd damned well better do it.

I seem to recall something about glass houses that seems particularly relevant in this thread.

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Islam ITSELF is intolerant towards others. The *ideological basis* of Islam is intolerant towards others.


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Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the Bible says you can sell your daughter, whores should be stoned, and when "God" tells you to off someone you'd damned well better do it.

I seem to recall something about glass houses that seems particularly relevant in this thread.

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That would be relevent if there were a series of stonings against women, offings and selling of daughters in the western world all which was supported by a large segment of the bible following religions. However there isn't. There is a growing number of violent attacks originating in the Islamic world against the non Islamic world.

There may be other interpretations possible but currently this particular intrepretation is a problem and it is naive to pretend that the Islamic religion itself is not a part of that problem.

I don't think it is out of line to A) indentify these teachings as being out there B) identify that they are being used to justify terrorist attacks and C) tell the Islamic world that if they do not take it upon themselves "clean up" their religion on their own then we the rest of society will at somepoint pose the question is culture of Islam as tought in the muslem world compatible with our culture.

That being said I think if the illegitimate governments were in some way removed power and the people had basic freedoms things would be much different.

[MMMMMM]

ACPlayer, I remember I once posted three alternate translations of certain disturbing Koranic verses, in order to satisfy your objections rgarding "interpretation" or "translation". All three translations were by Islamic scholars, who were also Muslims. All three translations corroborated the plain, literal verses of the Koran, just as I had stated.

You then objected further that you couldn't speak Arabic. Well if Muslim scholars and imams agree on the general thrust of the translation, that ought to be good enough for you, since you know nothing about it.

The "protection" of which you speak only applies to those Christians and Jews WHO AGREE TO LIVE SUBSERVIENTLY UNDER ISLAMIC LAW. Hence my claims are correct.

It has been proven to you but you won't accept it because that would force you to revamp your premises and conclusions.

In other words, it is you who are both highly ignorant and dogmatically close-minded about these issues. But the Muslim scholars and imams disagree with you about Islam. And all you have to do is listen to what they say. But you won't even do that.

Talk about close-minded; you are the very definition of close-minded.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

If you believe that we are influenced by moslems coming here (as we clearly are) how do you figure that they are not influenced by the society they arrive to?

Saw a documentary here a about a school with about 60 different nationalities. They make a large group and discuss multiculturalism. A Norwegian girl says: "Soon there will be no point in travelling anymore since all cultures are here". A Pakistani boy answers: "Have you ever traveled? Have you been to Pakistan? I feel like a foreigner every time I go there. Everything is so different from how Pakistanis live here."

Think it sums it up, the strength and nature of the human race is to constantly adjust to different conditions. Culture and traditions changes every decade.