Too weak/tight w/ JJ?

Inevitable · #1 10-06-2005, 08:55 PM

No real reads. Anyone else fold here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) converter

Button ($20.50)
SB ($55.20)
BB ($12.85)
UTG ($12.15)
MP ($13.75)
Hero ($27.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, SB calls $1.15, BB calls $1, MP calls $1.

Flop: ($5) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $3, MP calls $3, Hero folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($11) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $8.6 (All-In), MP calls $8.60.

River: ($28.20) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $28.20

miajag81 · #2 10-06-2005, 09:10 PM

I'm raising to 12 on this flop every time.

Inevitable · #3 10-06-2005, 09:14 PM

So you're basically all-in on this flop, no?

rikz · #4 10-06-2005, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Button ($20.50)
SB ($55.20)
BB ($12.85)
UTG ($12.15)
MP ($13.75)
Hero ($27.80)

[/ QUOTE ]

1- [DELETED BY POSTER BECAUSE THIS POINT MADE NO SENSE.]

2- Villains' stacks

SB has a full stack and decided to check on this draw-heavy board, so he's probably not playing a set or two pair, or some hand that wants to make better hands pay to draw out. Even a straight in SB would have to be worried a little bit about a flush draw.

The other two villains are short-stacked. Without a read, I treat most short-stacks without too much respect because they are just about pot-committed in any hand they play past the flop. They could have anything from a straight, to a flush draw, to a set, to top pair, to a pair with an OESD, to an underpair, to overcards, to who knows? So, I think I'd bet just enough to put them both all-in on the flop and probably fold to a major check/raise from SB.

3- What if the stacks were deeper?

If all players had full or deep stacks, or you had any read at all that at least one of them was nut-peddling with their short stack, then I'd still want to raise, but then fold to a call/bet or a re-raise push from either one.

4 - Folding is still ok

Although I wouldn't have folded for the reasons I've stated above, I think folding is ok too. It's probably a lot lower variance. You really don't have a big hand and the board is too coordinated for comfort.

11t · #5 10-06-2005, 09:18 PM

I think you can fold to a push on this flop.

Inevitable · #6 10-06-2005, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1- Your stack

I think you should have a combat load of chips at the table. Why get in here with only half the buy-in? It limits your ability to get information without getting pot committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, this is 25NL, I bought in for the maximum allowed amount.

[ QUOTE ]
4 - Folding is still ok

Although I wouldn't have folded for the reasons I've stated above, I think folding is ok too. It's probably a lot lower variance. You really don't have a big hand and the board is too coordinated for comfort.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I felt at the time.

rikz · #7 10-06-2005, 09:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, this is 25NL, I bought in for the maximum allowed amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. Sorry. I need to read the post closer. I thought the buy-in was 50 for some reason. So, ignore #1. That makes folding look better than it did before. I still think I would personally raise just enough to put both of the shorter stacks all-in, and fold if SB check-raised ME all-in. But folding does look reasonable, and like I said, lower variance.