Am I in a LAG phase?

private joker · #1 10-14-2005, 05:16 AM

Or are these regular value bets? I haven't played online in a week, and now I'm back on Party Poker -- so glad to see fish that I may be overplaying my hand, assuming everyone sucks. Or else these may be standard. What say y'all about these two hands?

Hand 1: No reads on anyone.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (8.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets...

Hand 2: No reads on anyone

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, Button raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (7.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets...

W. Deranged · #2 10-14-2005, 05:17 AM

In the second hand, what hand that you are beating possibly calls on the river? 33? K-high?

ArturiusX · #3 10-14-2005, 05:21 AM

Call the flop raise in hand 1. We shouldnt be trying to bully a weaker J out of the hand, and we don't want chips in as a dog vs a queen.

The river bet is interesting in hand 2. Are we folding a nine here?

private joker · #4 10-14-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call the flop raise in hand 1. We shouldnt be trying to bully a weaker J out of the hand, and we don't want chips in as a dog vs a queen.

The river bet is interesting in hand 2. Are we folding a nine here?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a very good point about Hand 1. But also in my range of hands were KT and T9, since I see a lot of OESDs raising this here. But in that case, what I should do is call the flop raise and throw in a stop-n-go lead on the turn.

In Hand 2 -- yes, since I'm calling a bet if I check, I'd rather do the betting myself because there's a chance a 9 folds here, with two overcards and the lower card paired. A 9 should be thinking, "All I can beat is a bluff."

#5 10-14-2005, 05:49 AM

Hand 2: Are you going to fold to a raise on the river? If not, you have to factor in this extra bet lost because a raise means you're toast.

private joker · #6 10-14-2005, 05:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Are you going to fold to a raise on the river? If not, you have to factor in this extra bet lost because a raise means you're toast.

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This is an easy fold to a raise. The point is I'm putting in 1BB on this river -- the question is do I check-call or bet/fold. That's why I posted it; I thought bet/fold was best at the time because of the small chance I can get a 9 to fold, plus the few times 66/55 call me. But it may be that I'd rather let a missed heart draw bluff.

SackUp · #7 10-14-2005, 06:00 AM

Hand 1 - that is fairly aggressive even if you think he has an OESD. Having a CC range on this guy would be nice. You are likely toast to a standard player who would have something like AQ or KQs. Though a medium PP may play this way as well, though not as likely.

I like the line you suggested of calling the flop and then pulling the sng on the turn. Easy fold to a raise. But what do you do on this river? Easy value bet after he just called your turn bet or do you c/c?

Hand 2

I like it. I definitely think you can fold a 9 with the turn and river cards. What about a sng on this hand given that you must be putting him on diamonds to 3-bet him on the flop here?

Overall I think both hands might be a little overplayed against unknowns, but I think it is definitely close.

thesharpie · #8 10-14-2005, 06:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 - that is fairly aggressive even if you think he has an OESD. Having a CC range on this guy would be nice. You are likely toast to a standard player who would have something like AQ or KQs. Though a medium PP may play this way as well, though not as likely.

I like the line you suggested of calling the flop and then pulling the sng on the turn. Easy fold to a raise. But what do you do on this river? Easy value bet after he just called your turn bet or do you c/c?

Hand 2

I like it. I definitely think you can fold a 9 with the turn and river cards. What about a sng on this hand given that you must be putting him on diamonds to 3-bet him on the flop here?

Overall I think both hands might be a little overplayed against unknowns, but I think it is definitely close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if we can easily fold to a turn raise if we stop and go in hand 1. We'll be getting over 8 to 1 and might even have the best hand if he's LAGgy or just doing a free showdown play, it also looks weak since we'd be 3 betting our good hands, and if not then checkraising the turn.

Hand 2 that Q changed nothing for him, and since he called the ace turn I think he's showing down a 9.

Edit: I guess we play great hands against aggro opponents with a stop and go looking to 3 bet the turn sometimes, although I don't think we would on this board, but part of the reason it works is because it looks weak.

Carmine · #9 10-14-2005, 07:02 AM

Hand #1 - No read on button and we assign his CC with T9/KT more than AQ/KQ/KJ/QJ/QT??? (I realize the J holdings are less likely). If that is the case then why are we bet/folding river rather than check/calling? Even if he has JT I still think C/Call river is better because I think many a weak J will fold to a river bet.

private joker · #10 10-14-2005, 07:48 AM

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Even if he has JT I still think C/Call river is better because I think many a weak J will fold to a river bet.

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Ugh. Any weak J that's folding to a river bet is checking behind. But a lot of weak Js that are checking behind are also calling a river bet. Sure, I'm getting called by every better hand -- but I also can't let worse hands that will call check behind, and if I'm calling a river bet when I check, then it makes more sense to put the BB in as the bettor.